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Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

bbc.com

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Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#71

Post by paskster »

Europe is not a single market at all. Simple thinks like making sure your invoice is paid from a customer who is based in another european country is practically impossible.

I know because I am the CEO of a staffing company in Germany: national as well as international businesses book exhibition staff and other temporary employees for events in Germany and Austria through our platform.

If one of our german customers does not pay, we can easily use the german legal system to ensure that we get our money. If we have to sue, our legal system makes sure that we are reimbursed if we win in court. But if for example an Italian business is using our service and they don't pay our invoice, we have no way to get our money. We technically could appeal to a court in Italy, get a lawyer in Italy, translate all documents to Italian and sue in Italy. But this would cost at least 20.000 EUR in total which are not reimbursed even if we win in court.

That is why businesses who are not based in Germany have to pay upfront. I cannot call the EU a single market, if my business has to treat a customer from EU the same like any other customer around the world.

So, maybe the UK will have some disadvantages if they are not part of the EU anymore. But they are not leaving a "single market" because the EU never was a single market. I guess they will be just fine without the EU.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#72

Post by ar0 »

osullivj wrote: post #35
cs02rm0 wrote: post #3

I think, regardless of where she intends to end up, she always had to start from the perspective of the UK being completely out of the EU. Showing that the UK is prepared to stand on its own two feet. If not prepared to do so, negotiations would be very one sided. It'll certainly be interesting to see how the negotiations play out.

Agreed. Look at what happened with the recent Canadian EU deal, which was nearly derailed by Wallonia, the French speaking half of Belgium [1]. A UK EU trade deal will require unanimity from the EU 27. Given the current political climate, that just won't happen. So "hard Brexit" is inevitable. Theresa May is just making a virtue of a necessity. She does have one very powerful negotiating lever: London is Europe's fin…

This might be a negotiating lever with the actual trade negotiators, who care about these things and know about such intricacies. But note that every deal with the UK will also have to pass through all the national parliaments in the EU. And there (as in the general public) you won't find much love for banks in general and British investment banks in particular. When Philip Hammond talks about retaining access to "hedging" and "derivatives", to most people those are not things to safeguard but evil market speculation that should be eliminated.

I have the feeling that (from the EU perspective) the opportunity to punish banks with a difficult Brexit will actually make negotiations for the UK harder, not easier.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#75

Post by derrickdirge »

chii wrote: post #29
donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

> a shared set of values is. except they never had this - the richer countries see their contribution as a drain (e.g., the almost collapse for the greeks), unlike the american state, which distributes the federal taxes somewhat more "evently", and there's no "Us vs Them" mentality.

> the american state, which distributes the federal taxes somewhat more "evently", and there's no "Us vs Them" mentality.

The level of naïveté displayed in this comment is shocking.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#76

Post by raverbashing »

akjainaj wrote: post #13
headmelted wrote: post #9

For anyone not familiar with British political etiquette, the phrase: "the UK cannot remain within the European single market, as staying in it would mean not leaving the EU at all" can be interpreted as: "I told them they better give us a special exception for single market access and no immigration and they laughed at me".

Which is funny because if the EU is to survive, immigration controls will have to be put in place. Many countries are already demanding to control their borders. So when that happens, the UK will feel stupid for leaving, I suppose. They could've just waited.

"control the borders!!!11" are one of the catch-phrases that make absolutely no sense for people with only a modest understanding of how it actually works

But I'm sure to some Brexiters brown people at the streets is the fault of the EU somehow

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#77

Post by blibble »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #67
coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. Only we never done that. We just allowed for easy border access, united a few laws, and had central bureaucrats and heavier countries step on the throats of lesser ones.

I am yet to understand how the EU makes it easier for bigger countries to step on the small ones. Do you think Germany wouldn't be able to throw its weight around to push Poland, Czechia or Slovakia to do whatever they want to? Who would legally put an opposition to that? The lack of an existing legal framework agreed upon all actors would mean there's no deterrent for an escalation if, let's say, France or UK decide…

the veto's power has grossly exaggerated, since the Treaty of Lisbon most decisions are now made using Qualified Majority Voting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E...

this is how the spectacularly unpopular migrant relocation was forced through against Eastern Europe's objections

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#78

Post by NetStrikeForce »

andriesm wrote: post #37
donmatito wrote: post #14

This is such a pity. European Union is (was ?) an incredible achievement. I don't think we realize exactly how improbable uniting Europe around a common destiny and a shared set of values is. I hope the best for Europe and UK on their separate path. Given the mess, a clean cut is probably in the best interest of both sides

A clean cut is certainly in both sides best interest, and the UK is clear they want that, but EU is not so clear about it, because they depend on implied threats to keep some of the other members from leaving too. Free trade is fantastic, but a unified monatory policy is a disaster - it cannot work- not even on paper.

Where do you draw the line for a common monetary policy?

Would regions like Madrid or Barcelona, easily at e.g. Dutch level, have to share monetary policy with Andalucia or Extremadura - two of the poorer regions in Europe?

Are there studies pointing to when or where a common monetary policy stops making sense?

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#79

Post by thenomad »

lwhi wrote: post #41

I find her language very problematic. I didn't vote to leave—so when she claims to be speaking for the British people, I'm left wondering how my voice can count. I'm part of 48% of 72.2%; a lot of people are likely to share my concern. We need a general election. She speaks of what 'she wants'—the most problematic part of this surreal theatrical horror story is fact we the country didn't vote for her. I don't want th…

I couldn't agree more, and I wonder why you're being downvoted so hard.

Particularly given that 52% of the voters voted for Leave, not for a hard Brexit. Those are two very different propositions and a significant chunk of the 52% didn't want a hard Brexit.

Re: Theresa May: UK must leave European single market

#80

Post by hackerboos »

robert_foss wrote: post #61
harryf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I want my money back!" Margret Thatcher at the European Union summit in Dublin in 1980 "That such an unnecessary and irrational project as building a European superstate was ever embarked upon will seem in future years to be perhaps the greatest folly of the modern era. And that Britain, with her traditional strengths and global destiny, should ever have been part of it will appear a political error of historic magn…

That yes minister clip really does seem to reflect what has happened here.

Context https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
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