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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

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121–130 of 184 posts

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#121

They need to go further and ban any and all exotic animal trade for the quackery medicine and delicacy markets.

> They need to go further and ban any and all exotic animal trade for the quackery medicine and delicacy markets.

Yup, like rhinoceros horns powder and shark fins amongst other things...

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#122

You should also check out https://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs . We just finished a fundraiser for David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust (an elephant orphanage in Kenya) in collaboration with the UK branch of the organization. But you can still donate! https://www.reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs/comments/5gm1pl/he... DSWT even made a special video for this fundraiser https://www.youtube.com/embed/ogJprDLQFl8 Just check out f…

> The situation is really bad, if the next 10 years are as bad as the last 10, elephants will be basically extinct in the wild.

This is wrong. As you might know, elephants are not evenly distributed. Zimbabwe struggles with wild Elephant overpopulation and has to cull a fraction of the herd every couple of years otherwise the ecosystem will collapse.

I'm in no way supporting poaching, but raising a fact that I never see online until I raise it. Conservation is a complex topic.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#123

Please stop saying that hunting is a solution to preserve animals. It's cruel and non-sensical. Hunters actually say that they help preserving animals. Bitch if you wanted to help you'd be donating, not bragging your vanity and your hollowness on some poor's animal corpse. Saying hunting is a solution is like saying killing poor people is a solution to poverty...[..]

You're confusing conservation with animal welfare. They're two different goals which are often contradictory. You may be right that killing poor people would be a solution to poverty. But we don't do that because we think saving human life is more important than solving poverty. We could also minimize elephant killing by exterminating the species. That would ensure nobody ever inhumanely kills an elephant again. But preventing elephants being killed isn't our most important goal that we're willing to sacrifice everything else for.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree the West needs to improve animal welfare even further. But SOME cruelty laws are better than NONE, which is why I bring up China more. But you're totally right, there's awful stuff going on here, too.

Here's an interesting point: do we know that the poultry/fish industries can absorb the cost of "humanely" raiding these animals without collapsing? Assuming the money is there and this law would not kill an industry, how can we ensure that these cost increases are not passed on to the consumer? Living in the US is expensive enough. Would you guarantee "ethical eggs" if the cost was fewer poor people could afford the…

Why do you want to "ensure that these cost increases are not passed on to the consumer"? Isn't that a major problem already (people not paying the real cost of their food)?

I can appreciate the need for cheap protein, but I don't see why it should be addressed in isolation from any other form of social inequality.

I see no reason why the government should be subsidizing someone's steak, bacon or fish. Eggs and dairy? Yes, but only for the vulnerable.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ivory, you would essentially have to grow a tooth in vitro for less than $1500, retail. Technologically, we're not there yet.

Can you prove that ivory is ivory? Why not ceramic or plastic or something that feels like ivory but isn't?

Burn tests, as yyhhsj0521 points out, are done. If the object is made of keratin, it will smell like burning hair. I've never burned ivory, but I imagine it would also give off a unique smell (e.g., think drilling in a dentist office). Of course, as biotech advances, DNA tests and the like will be cheap and prevelant, and those will be used to establish authenticity.

There have been some substitutes developed for ivory, but they're readily identifiable. These substitutes include the tagua nut [1] and nitrocellulose plastic [2].

[1] http://animals.oreilly.com/the-other-ivory/

[2] http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-earliest-plastic-billiard-balls-h...

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#126
post #92

I always wondered- why is the ivory market not flooded with fakes? Everything is faked in china, this is a valuable good- is there no way to synthesize dentin flood the poachers out of the buisness?

There is a startup trying to do just that... bioengineer rhino horns, tusks etc. http://signup.pembient.com/

Thanks for the mention! We're mainly focused on horn at present, but I do mention ivory here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13288580

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kudos to Chinese government to work together with international society and celebrities to raise the awareness of normal Chinese people. Shark fin was considered a delicacy, but in fact not tasty at all. Most people just need to get the truth be told to them in a way that they are willing to listen, Cheng Long and Yao Ming are perfect public faces for such effort.

> Shark fin was considered a delicacy, but in fact not tasty at all. What a meaningless statement - that is as subjective as can be.

I assume you are not Chinese.

Shark fin is populated almost everywhere as some kind of unbelievable delicacy, only the most previleged individuals can afford them.

Such illusion is portraited in books, films, casual chats, etc. This type of mysterious image of a thing, which actually is neither delicious nor highly nutritious, makes any banning of such thing impossible. Bescause everyone is convinced that it is that good, including those who are in charge of making the decision.

It was only after many years of gradual shift in public perception that makes the eventual tide turn happens. Now most people would agree that shark fin is expensive, because they are from sharks, not because they are incredibly delicious.

When I said "not tasty at all", that definitely is subjective. But at the same time it is reprentative. Because shark fin tastes just like "fen si", with fishy scent. "Fen si" is something that every Chinese eat daily. That is quite different from what one would expect from the images of popular sources. If something just tastes like another thing that one eats daily, does that make it a delicacy at all?!

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#128

You should also check out https://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs . We just finished a fundraiser for David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust (an elephant orphanage in Kenya) in collaboration with the UK branch of the organization. But you can still donate! https://www.reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs/comments/5gm1pl/he... DSWT even made a special video for this fundraiser https://www.youtube.com/embed/ogJprDLQFl8 Just check out f…

If no one told you that elephants had gone extinct, would you, or the average person ever know? Being serious here no down votes plz. I'm all for being nice to animals but tbh untill we can feed "starving kids in Africa" maybe limited resources would be better directed for humans and not elephants (ie enforcing bans / going after black market).

There's a lot more humans than elephants, and a lot of these humans should be taking better care of themselves and their environment. I'd rather my resources go to elephants who are suffering at the hands of humans than to humans who are irresponsibly destroying everything around them.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#130
post #39

Only if bans worked!

They do, sometimes. It depends on barriers to entry. It's hard to ban marijuana or alcohol, because it's so easy to make. Relatively true for meth as well. But you don't see many people doing quaaludes anymore because it's not easy to make. Additionally, a ban like this doesn't have to be 100% effective to be worth the trouble. The time frame is also important. Saying "bans don't work" is absurdly reductionist.
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