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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#491

Post by collyw »

grecy wrote: post #181
ezoe wrote: post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

Worse still, tipping is merely a way of keeping class hierarchies, and it's disgusting. When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. Of course, they might not too. Labor laws, minimum wage, etc are all there to make this illegal in a work contract, and it should b…

Reading George Orwell's Homage to Catalunya, where Barcelona was an Anarchist state for a while, he points out that tipping was banned. He also says that despite many problems the anarchist state "seemed like something worth fighting for".

Its definitely worth a read.

Re: No tipping means better business

#492

Post by collyw »

kofejnik wrote: post #407
ezoe wrote: post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

When I made a similar argument in similar discussion on Reddit, I was instantly labeled the worst and the most vile person ever for not appreciating daily struggles of poor waiters

This is the problem.

The obvious way to get rid of the tipping culture is to not give them, or give as much as you the customer believe it is worth (rather than a standard 15 / 20%).

Doing this it will be the waiting staff that suffer rather than the restaurant owners, who you are trying to pass the message to.

Re: No tipping means better business

#493

Post by snicky »

spangry wrote: post #287
coldtea wrote: post #37

> Now what if we were to magically make tipping disappear? Think about the diner for a second. What if, by removing tips from your restaurant, you’ll actually end up delighting more guests, improving your food, and retaining employees? Well, I've dined all over the world (not an American btw), and the US had the most friendly and alert waiting stuff, which I guess it's at least party because of the tipping. Sure, in…

I think this might come down to individual preference. Personally, I find the whole US dining experience rather uncomfortable. Because I come from a country without a tipping culture (Australia), I'm never sure if I'm tipping way too much, or way too little. So my meal always comes with a nice side-order of "paranoia that I'm committing a social faux pas ". I also hate the constant 'how is your meal going sir?' check…

Haha. Funny to read this as I have similar feeling most of the time, but the reason is that I almost never tip. I know I might be considered an a-hole, but I just cannot justify paying additional 10-20% for the "how's your meal" bs every time I go out to eat (and I go out a lot). If somebody agrees to be paid below the living wage it's not really my business and I think it's up to the owner and his staff to make these things straight.

Last year I have also visited Australia for the first time with my wife and we absolutely loved the fact on the contrary to other Western countries you are never expected to tip in there. From what I understand waiters get their reasonable salaries, the food is quite expensive, but if you see 38$ in the menu, you know you are going to leave 38$ on the table. Nobody has to waste their brain cycles thinking about how to tip the dudes. We live in EU and find EU and US tipping culture a major pain in the a.

Re: No tipping means better business

#494

Post by cmurf »

BurningFrog wrote: post #380
cmurf wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a foreigner about this and they think American's are batshit when it comes to the tipping strategy and how much noodle time and effort we spend on it. Basically it's a type of freeloading. The business manager is dumping off their decision making, verbal and mon…

I've talked to several people from my home country who won't visit the US because they don't want to deal with the social trauma of deciding who to tip when and why. Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. > The business manager is dumping off their decision making The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.

I think it's overwhelmingly a unidirectional expectation. Tippers feel like they ought to tip more than they'd ever defend tipping as a concept. The economic evaluation pretty much shows most people tip the same whether they receive good, average, or poor service. It takes exceptionally poor service to get enough people to lower their tip that the waiter recognizes the negative feedback, and there's probably yet another line below that where they decide to alter their behavior. And in the meantime it negatively reflects on the business overall.

Worse though, business managers/owners are responsible for programming their point of sales systems to include tip lines for employees who definitely are not wait staff and thus are subject to the normal minimum wage, not the lower tipped employee minimum wage. So it really is business managers who are stiffing their customers with this responsibility and the ensuing behavior.

California for some time now doesn't distinguish in their minimum wage between job types; no waiter there is making $2 an hour or whatever it used to be 20 years ago.

Re: No tipping means better business

#495

Post by msvan »

gkuan wrote: post #450
demosito666 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is tipping somewhat mandatory in the US? Everywhere I've been it's up to the customer to decide if he wants to leave the tip. What if I won't leave tips?

In some places, the wait staff will grab you on your way out and notify you that you didn't tip enough (say 20% instead of 30%).

This happened to me once in NY at a fairly nice place. The waitress came back and asked what was wrong with the service, when we were really just a group of stingy Europeans.

Re: No tipping means better business

#496

Post by nommm-nommm »

hsitz wrote: post #447
seangrogg wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point it is just the psychological impact you allow suggestions to have on you. One could probably make an "employee-owned" store (WinCo, Trader Joes) with lovely staff and get away with doing this to sweeten the pot for employees.

You say "just" the psychological impact. Which is of course true, but I would leave out the "just" and emphasize that, yes, this is all about psychological impact. I go to these kind of POS restaurants/coffeshops all the time, and I can't recall one where it didn't have a tip screen. I know of several that are also set up so that "no tip" is not even one of the options, the only easy options you have are to select 10…

Not only that but you've got people behind you in line who can see what you are doing, and you don't want them judging you! What if you we with a date, or a friend, or your boss or coworkers? They can see the screen and you want signal you are a good person to these people.

Re: No tipping means better business

#497

Post by zeroer »

idunno246 wrote: post #465
zeroer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC with a few extra clicks on Square you can find a menu that will give you a "no tip" option. It's definitely hidden on purpose.

ive never seen a square display without a no tip option, and I'm pretty sure the restaurant is who decides what options are there

You're right that the restaurant probably decides. The option has always been there when I looked. When it doesn't, I'll refuse to pay.

Re: No tipping means better business

#498

Post by cyberferret »

BurningFrog wrote: post #380
cmurf wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a foreigner about this and they think American's are batshit when it comes to the tipping strategy and how much noodle time and effort we spend on it. Basically it's a type of freeloading. The business manager is dumping off their decision making, verbal and mon…

I've talked to several people from my home country who won't visit the US because they don't want to deal with the social trauma of deciding who to tip when and why. Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. > The business manager is dumping off their decision making The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.

> Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry.

I for one consider the whole social awkwardness of tipping as a huge negative against revisiting the US again...

Re: No tipping means better business

#499

Post by snicky »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #53

I agree with the author. Having lived in Japan for a number of years, where tipping isn't done, I can say that the dining experience is far superior. Servers don't have to feel like beggars and patrons don't have to feel like their being panhandled. I also agree that nothing screams "I'm a sphincter!" quite like asking for a 20% tip on a muffin, or a cup of coffee. Unless you physically came to me, got my order, and…

No offence, but how does physically coming to you and bringing your food justifies paying additional 10-20%? As mentioned above, I live in EU and almost never tip, because I cannot really understand this cultural thing. Why should I pay a special tip to sbd who brings my food and not clerks in a bakery or a garbage track drivers? I'm being serious here, I'm trying to understand why people do this. Is there any other reason than "the custom"?

Re: No tipping means better business

#500

Post by nommm-nommm »

melvinmt wrote: post #376
X86BSD wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to do the latter. When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok? But I can't tell you how many times I've not had a fork, or needed a drink and my waitperson never came to ask if I needed anything. The frustration can go both ways.

> When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok? Where I grew up (The Netherlands) this simply does not exist. If you need something you ask the waiter and only then they'll come to you. Likewise for the check, the check only comes when you ask for it. It is considered extremely rude to get the check before you've asked for it. Of course, after living in the US for 5 years I've become accustome…

Can you elaborate on "entree not being an appetizer?"
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