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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#51

Post by lpr22 »

colechristensen wrote: post #31
ahoy wrote: post #3

Is the restaurant industry in need of saving, from a restaurant owner's or diner's perspective? I'm fully on the "tipping is terrible for everyone involved" side, but I wonder if the framing here is based on anything.

It certainly seems like it should be more efficient for 100 people to eat dinner in a restaurant than for 40 people to cook 100 meals. (100 / average household size (~2.5) = ~40) And yet it's considerably more expensive. Because, it seems, a considerable amount of the cost of restaurant food goes to the overhead costs of the real-estate owners and the financial system. This is both directly and indirectly (the cost o…

For things like this, since the majority of lawmakers are also real estate owners, it would be a non-starter. But, even if it did happen, I feel like the food costs would just increase to compensate for the taxes, since the rental prices would certainly go up disproportionately.

Re: No tipping means better business

#52

Post by alkonaut »

I think the title should say "Having an expected floor for tipping of 20% and tips of 30% for excellent service, is not a better incentive for good service than a floor of 0% and 10% for good service".

Removing (banning) tipping all together in a restaurant is doable, but as an owner you may want to ensure you have incentives left for employers (e.g. let customers anonymously rate the service after online bookings and hand out bonuses etc).

I prefer the normal system where staff is paid in full (so no part of their expected income is tips) and customers tip for good service. This is how it works in most of the world.

Re: No tipping means better business

#53

Post by innocentoldguy »

I agree with the author. Having lived in Japan for a number of years, where tipping isn't done, I can say that the dining experience is far superior. Servers don't have to feel like beggars and patrons don't have to feel like their being panhandled.

I also agree that nothing screams "I'm a sphincter!" quite like asking for a 20% tip on a muffin, or a cup of coffee. Unless you physically came to me, got my order, and brought my food to me, you don't deserve a damn tip.

Another thing that restaurant owners do that is deserving of a throat-punch is to confiscate tips and dole them out to other workers, or divvy them up evenly amongst the servers. When I give someone a tip, it is because they've done a good job, and I want to show THAT PERSON my gratitude. I'm not remotely interested in helping the restaurant owner make payroll. That's not what my tip is for.

Tipping sucks and it is grossly abused throughout the restaurant industry. I'd be happy to see it die a deserved death.

Re: No tipping means better business

#54

Post by kiba »

smallnamespace wrote: post #42
kiba wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would need to explain that to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax#Efficiency A landlord's decision to improve or not improve the property only depends on 1) the cost of the improvements and 2) the expected revenue stream from that improvement, neither of which are affected by an LVT, since the LVT only cares about the unimproved value of the lot.

I can't follow the technical arguments you're making.

Re: No tipping means better business

#55

Post by pzh »

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can spend 3 or 4 hours over a bottle of wine, and there would be no pressure to pay and leave, so waiters find it impossible to make any promises regarding when a table would free up. Additionally, the waitstaff won't be paid extra to make an effort and try to serve more tables on a given night (being on a fixed salaries), so they'll be quite leisurely about their business.

Of course, if you happen to be the one who got there early, and you like having 3-hour meals while chatting with your friends, it's the perfect arrangement, because nobody will pressure you to eat, pay, and leave in 30-40 mins as usually happens in the US.

Re: No tipping means better business

#56

Post by dustinmoris »

Oh my god this guy is a freaking genius! He totally cracked the restaurant code!

> "Make your food delicious."

No shit? That could possibly make customers happy?

> "Next, consider cooking an art form."

Aha, okay...

> "Go ahead: Kill tips and list a fair price for your bowl of brisket pho, grilled lamb shawarma, or omakase."

Haha, okay... well if it's this easy... how could everyone get it so wrong? Damn!

---

FYI - I never felt uncomfortable to tip in a restaurant. I go even as far as that I don't dine in restaurants which have a no tip policy or where the tips go to the owner instead of the staff.

Also, restaurants already charge a fair price. It's one of the longest running industries and they do still pretty well, so clearly they already ask a "fair" price for their phos. The wage for a chef or other staff is not determined by the menu price but by the market rate. If you have more people who can cook than people who need a cook then it's a bit tough isn't it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#58

Post by ezoe »

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks.

I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal.

I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax.

The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker become underpaid without the tipping, then the worker is underpaid by the employer.

Re: No tipping means better business

#59

Post by sgift »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

> Of course, if you happen to be the one who got there early, and you like having 3-hour meals while chatting with your friends, it's the perfect arrangement, because nobody will pressure you to eat, pay, and leave in 30-40 mins as usually happens in the US.

If I'd like to be pressured to leave asap I would go to a fast food chain. So, this doesn't sound like a problem at all, more like a feature.

Re: No tipping means better business

#60

Post by wjossey »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

This is something I've also experienced during my travels to Europe, in particular in Paris. I will say I've found this to be a "feature", not a "bug". In addition, it's uncommon for the check to be presented without it first being asked for, whereas in the US, once you "pass" on desert, you're given a check.

I'd love to see a non-tipping culture organically rise up. I'd choose restaurants that pay a living wage for all full time employees, sans the need for tips. I know some restaurants have experimented with negative results, but I'd like to (maybe wishfully) believe that this can still take hold in the US.

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