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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#41

Post by alkonaut »

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

> incentives matter

Is the US system of tipping as an expected part of the pay of service staff really an incentive though? Isn't the incentive of service staff really just based on getting more than the "base tip" (which can be 10, 15 or 20%)?

In countries where he "base tip" for the expected level of service is zero, tips can still be 10% or 20% for good service.

Re: No tipping means better business

#42

Post by smallnamespace »

kiba wrote: post #33
samastur wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't change landlord's incentives and therefore unlikely to change the outcome.

You would need to explain that to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax#Efficiency

A landlord's decision to improve or not improve the property only depends on 1) the cost of the improvements and 2) the expected revenue stream from that improvement, neither of which are affected by an LVT, since the LVT only cares about the unimproved value of the lot.

Re: No tipping means better business

#43

Post by MrQuincle »

From personal experience (just anecdotal) I would say service in the US is much better than for example in the Netherlands (my own country). I think you'll have to think of other things than service to make this happen.

Other options:

+ Start with clear signs to indicate for other businesses (cabs, hairdresser) that tips are not expected.

+ I will assume that you pay the 20% to your personnel anyway. So basically you offer a guilt-free paying experience. We will genuinely be happy by whatever you pay.

+ The international card. Communicate that you don't want that Americans are the only ones paying 20% more.

+ Build up a name as employer. Advertise with that.

+ Mix and match your service offerings with others, being a library, place to date, etc where tipping is less obvious.

+ Have people pay online before the meal. Subscriptions is also possible.

+ Uber-experience. Do not pay the restaurant directly, but have intermediate company taking care of it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#44

Post by danielhooper »

Tipping is great because it provides the customer with some leverage to pay a price they feel is fair. Not to mention it allows many many many many people to live somewhat comfortably despite working in what would be considered a lowly occupation. We haven't even talked about how service workers are salesman and saleswomen who are provided the opportunity to be compensated more for greater achievement, and the business in turn as well.

It sounds like the people who dislike tipping are the same people who struggle to stand up for themselves to salespeople, and feel pressured to pay extra just to remove themselves from the social setting. I don't mean to be accusatory, but I believe it's likely this is a major motivating factor to dislike tipping despite the complete advantage it gives to you as a consumer.

Re: No tipping means better business

#45

Post by egocodedinsol »

This essay left me confused - it starts by suggesting that tipping is bad, and that raising prices, possibly above the cost of tipping, will bring a net win. I was very curious to read about why.

But then the essay shifted to two seemingly unrelated reasons: (1) if you make the food delicious and the service great you can charge more, and (2) if you pay the kitchen staff more, you get less turnover/happier cooks. These last two don't support the central thesis - why does ending tipping help cooks get paid more? At the end of the day, fixing all other costs, cooks get paid more if servers get paid less, whether that's from ending tipping or increasing chef salary. And obviously making delicious food would be great, but what does that have to do with tipping? If you end tipping, suddenly everyone will try harder?

An article examining the effects of increasing chef pay at the expense of service pay would be very interesting to me. I would gladly sacrifice some professionalism in service for increased food quality, and I wonder if others would, too.

Re: No tipping means better business

#46

Post by alkonaut »

joshontheweb wrote: post #29
lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Agreed. Tipping culture gives more power to the customer and results in better service in my experience. Every time I come back to the US I experience a noticeable increase in attention and service. Also, when abroad, if they find out you are from the US many servers will put in extra work as they know there is a decent chance you will tip based on your home culture. I always tip even in countries where it isn't expe…

The thing people seem to be missing though is that a set "expected tip level" ruins the whole thing. If you are expected to tip 20% for just "service" what incentive does that give to provide "good service"?

Sure you might have a higher chance of getting 30% for good service - but I think it's probably easier to get 10 or 20% for good service in a place where 0% is the expected level.

Re: No tipping means better business

#47

Post by lpr22 »

surrealvortex wrote: post #28
legohead wrote: post #15

Went to a revolving sushi bar tonight. Everything was automated. They even had a touchpad where you can put in orders (like miso ramen soup), which get delivered by a belt. The only thing the servers did was sit us and bring us water. We asked them to replace a leaking soy sauce container and they never did. We tipped 0$ -- there was essentially no service. I kinda felt bad, but talking it over with my wife, I couldn…

I also don't understand tipping at food carts. Customers stand in a line to pay and get their food, and are also expected to tip (either via Square or through tip jars). Edit: the expectation is generally implicit, and while standing in line, I can't help but notice that most customers hit the minimum tip percentage on Square, which is usually 15%

I never hit that minimum thing. I'll give $1 every once in a while because they're friendly and the town is so expensive, but the food prices already definitely reflect that, and there is no service, so /shrug

Re: No tipping means better business

#48

Post by cefstat »

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Interesting. It depends on what you mean by better off. I almost never had problems at restaurants with no or optional tipping. The waiters tend to behave professionally and this is what I wish. But in the US, I always feel uncomfortable with the over-the-top behavior of waiters. They behave like I am their long lost high-school friend and I find that creepy.

Re: No tipping means better business

#49

Post by smhg »

stingraycharles wrote: post #21
ahoy wrote: post #3

Is the restaurant industry in need of saving, from a restaurant owner's or diner's perspective? I'm fully on the "tipping is terrible for everyone involved" side, but I wonder if the framing here is based on anything.

There's a great Freakonomics podcast about this subject: https://itunes.apple.com/nl/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354... The bottom line is that from the perspective of the diner, it will not really matter (quality remains equal), but from the perspective of the restaurant, things will get a lot better.

2 actually. Also available outside iTunes:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-a-n...

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/danny-meyer/

Re: No tipping means better business

#50

Post by justosophy »

Tipping isn't a thing in Australia. I'm not sure I'd know the first thing for the right way to tip if I visited the US. And yet we seem to enjoy high quality food, and I believe our hospitality wages are higher in general.

( perhaps this is all anecdotal, but tipping has never seemed to make sense to someone not in the mix of it )

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