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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

401–410 of 550 posts

Re: No tipping means better business

#401
post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

> I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service.

You are. A tip is, by definition, not something you have to pay.

Re: No tipping means better business

#402
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a foreigner about this and they think American's are batshit when it comes to the tipping strategy and how much noodle time and effort we spend on it. Basically it's a type of freeloading. The business manager is dumping off their decision making, verbal and mon…

I've talked to several people from my home country who won't visit the US because they don't want to deal with the social trauma of deciding who to tip when and why. Someone should look into how much this is costing the US tourism industry. > The business manager is dumping off their decision making The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.

> The individual business manager is powerless about this. It's an ingrained national culture.

I've been to restaurants that clearly advertise that tips are not accepted and this has already been factored into pricing and wages. I never try to tip when I go to such a place.

Re: No tipping means better business

#403
post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

> The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker become underpaid without the tipping, then the worker is underpaid by the employer.

The thing about tipping, though, is that even if the employee were "fairly" compensated, they could still be "underpaid". This of course is only in the case where the tip is after the service.

What I mean by this, is when the tip is after the service, if the person is tipping fairly (or tips at all - some of these buggers just don't tip!), they will tip based on the level and quality of the service. That is what a tip is for.

If the person goes above and beyond their customer's wants and desires, and does so regularly (if the customer is a regular), those tips can be (and should be) a fairly large percentage. For instance, when I tip - if I get adequate service, I'll do 20%. But if I get better service, my tip rate will go up; I have done well over 100% at times when the service was worth it.

Now, I know that's an anomaly on my part - but going over 20% shouldn't be unexpected, if the service is worth it. It should also go the other way, of course (poor service -> less of a tip). It should serve as feedback to the employee as to how customers view their service, and how to improve it.

If the person does their job correctly (and makes an effort to go above and beyond customer's needs), and people tip properly (always an issue in today's world), then the employee can easily make well more in a day than what they would get being "paid fairly" by their employer without any tips.

However, today there are multiple problems: First, in so many cases, employees don't go "above and beyond" and so don't see the proper sized tips. But there is the other issue of people not tipping or tipping poorly - and so we have a feedback loop to the bottom. I'm not sure what has caused this, because I know it didn't use to be this way here in America.

For instance, my wife works in a service industry job. Recently, she had to cater to the desires of a customer, ultimately going well outside the parameters of her job and position to make this customer happy (I won't go into much detail - but it was room service with a multiple course meal, in a hotel chain that doesn't provide this service, for a family of four). Despite preparing and delivering enough food to feed a small army, doing so with a smile and a wave, and going out of her way to do this (while staying late on her shift) - she received zero tip from these people. These are long-term guests of her employer, too (they've been there longer than she has worked there); they have never been treated unfairly by her.

It's an unfortunate consequence of our system and society, and perhaps cultural - for some reason, many see service workers as "beneath them" or something, and refuse to tip. In other cases (like your's), there are other cultural conditionings from that side that makes tipping seem unnatural or foreign in some manner. All of this ultimately feeds into these employees doing a worse job than they might otherwise, again leading to a negative feedback loop.

That said - everywhere my wife has worked, after she has worked there for a limited amount of time, the customer satisfaction scores for her area have increased; she does receive accolades and positive response from staff, guests, and her employers. People write glowing positive Yelp and other reviews mentioning her, and how her attitude and assistance made their experience extremely enjoyable. Furthermore, when she has left positions (for one reason or another), those scores drop like a rock (she follows them afterward sometimes), and customers generally follow her to her new employer - her service is that good.

I shit you not, she has groupies.

And she generally makes good tips. At least from those who understand what tipping is about and for.

Re: No tipping means better business

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rarely gets enforced. Employers don't want to pay, employees want to enhance their wages by not paying taxes.

And in many cases, not reporting your tips as income and paying income tax on them is illegal...of course, not much chance of getting caught.

IIRC, reporting lower-than-expected tips increases the probability of a tax audit, and required tip reporting for payroll and other tax purposes makes it not-that-hard for employee underreporting to be detected and established in the event of such an audit.

Re: No tipping means better business

#405
post #109
post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

One more thinking. The tipping is dumping. The seller(who is the employer) offered a product with the price they choose. That price should reflect all the necessary costs of the product, including the salary to the workers. By demanding the tipping, they make the price cheaper than it actually is. That is dumping.

> By demanding the tipping

If it's demanded by the establishment, it's a service charge, not a tip. They are legally distinct things.

A tip may be expected by the server as part of social custom, but it is not demanded by the establishment from which you purchase.

Re: No tipping means better business

#406

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

> did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20?

This question applies to the bill too.

Re: No tipping means better business

#407
post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

When I made a similar argument in similar discussion on Reddit, I was instantly labeled the worst and the most vile person ever for not appreciating daily struggles of poor waiters

Re: No tipping means better business

#408
I wish more american restaurants would embrace the iPad ordering tools I've seen crop up. Then the waiter just brings out what you ordered. I like the food at waitstaff-based restaurants but as I often eat by myself (and work or sit around on HN during that time), I think the idea of being waited on is silly.

Also: tips on carry out? Why is that an option.

Re: No tipping means better business

#409
post #82

I used to hate tipping but now I love it. I spend >100 nights/yr in hotels, and tipping the bellman/doorman well on the way in is one of the best investments in a good stay (calibrating tips for the point where he gives you his name, and ideally phone number, for "if you need anything else"; $10 in most third tier US cities; $20 in a place like New York). Las Vegas basically runs on $5s and $20s -- everything from "v…

I had a hotel owner give me a ride downtown when the cab didn't answer. I gave a stranger, who was in a different hotel lobby, a ride to the airport on my way out when the cab didn't answer. I had someone at a takeout place offer to bring a replacement order to my house when I noticed my order was wrong (couldn't eat it) when I got home. I've had plenty of positive experiences with non-tipped customer service employees, when I was working non-tipped consumer service I always strived for good service.

Some people just want to provide good service and/or be nice people without the expectation of a monetary reward. I'd much rather have those people serving me than the ones who require bribes. I really don't want to turn all interactions into business transactions, I don't think that makes the world a better place and it encourages an extreme form of classicism where the only people welcome are the people who can afford ever increasing bribes every single place they go.

I also really don't want "impromptu meetings" when I'm trying to eat my dinner with my dinner companions.

Re: No tipping means better business

#410
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Another inconsistency involves the point in time at which a tip is expected. Historically tips came after the meal (or other service), and in theory you would tip well if you were happy with service, and badly or not at all if you were unhappy. In itself that made a little bit of sense (w/o considering the contradictions you mentioned). But nowadays you're often expected to tip at beginning of meal (i.e., when y…

I think that it's a mistake to think that because all POS systems used at restaurants support tips and you interact with that system up front at fast casual restaurants, therefore a tip is expected up front at those restaurants; it's generally not (and I've even seen some such places that use touchpad rather than write-on-reciept entry for tips pre-select "no tip"); virtually every source I've seen recommends that, i…

You're absolutely right however I'd argue that the presence of that tip line there leads people to feel bad and leave something there, which starts the feedback loop going to the point where it is/will be expected
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