No tipping means better business • Hacker News Board

Re: No tipping means better business

#121

Post by lefstathiou » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:02 AM UTC

aninhumer wrote: post #90

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Based on what I've seen in the US, tipping doesn't encourage good service, it encourages noticeable service. I'd rather be served by a slightly inattentive sullen teenager in the UK, than a perky waitress with a fake smile pestering me all the time in the US.

I respect that but find it to be a bizarre tradeoff I would never willingly make.

I would pick the perky attentive waiter sporting a smile that neither you nor i know is fake over a sullen inattentive person anywhere. In fact, if someone is having a bad day, I actually appreciate the effort to make it better with a fake smile than imposing it on me with a bad attitude. I've experienced overbearing waiters and the solution is as simple as politely asking for space. Nobody walks away from a moment like that feeling angry.

Back to the ultimate point: the question at hand is does tipping (overall) add to or take away from the quality of service provided to the partron. Based on my experience the answer is yes. All else equal - a person may or may not care about the tip.. in which case you get your base level of service. However, you may come across someone that does, in which case you are overwhelmingly more likely to get better service as a result.

Last thought: I find that tipping for service establishes a more direct human bond between me (the recipient) and the person performing the service that ultimately adds (positively) to the mutual experience. Rarely have I been anywhere where I walked away thinking I would have gotten better had I not tipped.

Re: No tipping means better business

#122

Post by tomp » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:03 AM UTC

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Incentives matter, but a percentage based tip is simply the wrong incentive. It is the same amount of work for the waiter if I order $10 spaghetti and a $30 bottle of house wine, or if I order $50 steak and $300 bottle of Champagne. Why should s/he be rewarded for my own choices, based on no input or effort on his/her side whatsoever?!

Re: No tipping means better business

#123

Post by turndown » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:05 AM UTC

okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #75

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US. I also know people who work as servers…

I've worked as both a server and a delivery driver, and even after having left both jobs I'd still be in favor of tipping because I think it incentivizes the worker to do well at their job. The US simply doesn't have the same culture Japan has.

That said, travelling to the US shouldn't be handicapped by a fear of tipping. Don't tip, or do, but not going because of it is an unfortunate choice.

Re: No tipping means better business

#124

Post by isostatic » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:08 AM UTC

alooPotato wrote: post #23

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

I would kill to order off an iPad

My favourite luncheon place in Singapore has iPads at every table. So much more relaxed then a waiter.

Re: No tipping means better business

#125

Post by Doctor_Fegg » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:09 AM UTC

surrealvortex wrote: post #17

Unless everyone decides to kill tips all at once, this will never work out. No server will work for a fixed 20% increment when they have the potential to get a lot more than that, especially on Saturday nights. There have been plenty of examples of this not working out [1]. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/15/478096516/why...

Certainly wouldn't say "never". It may be true in some places, but there's a successful gastropub in our town (open for one year now) which applies a uniform 20% service charge rather than asking for tips. It doesn't have any more or less difficulty getting staff than other nearby establishments.

Re: No tipping means better business

#126

Post by Annatar » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:09 AM UTC

turndown wrote: post #123

okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #75

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US. I also know people who work as servers…

I've worked as both a server and a delivery driver, and even after having left both jobs I'd still be in favor of tipping because I think it incentivizes the worker to do well at their job. The US simply doesn't have the same culture Japan has. That said, travelling to the US shouldn't be handicapped by a fear of tipping. Don't tip, or do, but not going because of it is an unfortunate choice.

The US simply doesn't have the same culture Japan has.

While this is true, it also sounds as an excuse not to improve. It is clearly time for the culture of United States to change, and not just change, but strive to change for the better. Punting won't do that.

There is too much punting going on everywhere, which is one of the reasons the world now finds itself in the problems it finds itself in. Please help stop the vicious downward spiral. Not punting on problems is a low hanging fruit.

Re: No tipping means better business

#127

Post by concerned_user » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:11 AM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #36

magaman69 wrote: post #2

restaurants will be gone when we all start popping meal pills. The tech is probably 3-4 years out by conservative estimates.

No way. We've already had a huge preview into how well artificial food replacement products are received by the general public, in the form of Soylent and similar meal replacement drinks and powders. The answer is that these products have niche demand at best, even before considering the problems they've had with quality control, negative health reactions, etc. My own experience is that a few years ago I spent a few…

They seem to be having some issues recently.

On October 12, 2016, the company announced it would halt sales of the "Soylent Bar" due to reports of gastrointestinal illness.

On October 27, 2016, the company halted sales of Soylent Powder 1.6 as a cautionary measure.

Re: No tipping means better business

#128

Post by throwaway6845 » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:11 AM UTC

aninhumer wrote: post #90

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Based on what I've seen in the US, tipping doesn't encourage good service, it encourages noticeable service. I'd rather be served by a slightly inattentive sullen teenager in the UK, than a perky waitress with a fake smile pestering me all the time in the US.

Yes. This is why I never go to Indian restaurants any more. Love the food, can't cope with the false bonhomie, so I order takeaways instead.

(UK resident.)

Re: No tipping means better business

#129

Post by radmuzom » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:13 AM UTC

srinathrajaram wrote: post #73

ezoe wrote: post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

>The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker become underpaid without the tipping, then the worker is underpaid by the employer. This! Tipping is nothing but the employer passing the buck and guilting the customer.

I find it very funny when people argue that increasing the minimum wage would increase costs for consumers (I don't necessarily disagree; in some cases it would, whether that is a bad thing is a different matter). I personally would pay a higher price, no tips and ensure that the workers serving can meet their basic needs via wages alone.

Re: No tipping means better business

#130

Post by throwaway6845 » Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

alooPotato wrote: post #23

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

I would kill to order off an iPad

I would kill to _pay_ with an iPad.

Absolute biggest hate at restaurants: waiting too long for the bill. I have eaten. I have enjoyed it. I now want to go somewhere else for a drink, or catch my train home, or whatever. Don't make me wait.