Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 550 posts

Re: No tipping means better business

#71

Post by gkoberger »

coldtea wrote: post #37

> Now what if we were to magically make tipping disappear? Think about the diner for a second. What if, by removing tips from your restaurant, you’ll actually end up delighting more guests, improving your food, and retaining employees? Well, I've dined all over the world (not an American btw), and the US had the most friendly and alert waiting stuff, which I guess it's at least party because of the tipping. Sure, in…

Nah, it's more of a cultural thing. In the US, waitstaff is expected to be attentive and stop by constantly. In other countries, they're expected to leave you alone unless you need them, so you can enjoy your meal without being annoyed. For example, in many countries, they'll never approach you or bring you a check until you flag them down to ask.

I think it's less about tipping, and more about customs.

Re: No tipping means better business

#72

Post by smallnamespace »

kiba wrote: post #67
smallnamespace wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are a landlord. You need to decide whether to make an improvement to your property. There are only two things you care about: 1. How much money does that improvement bring in? 2. How much does that improvement cost? Neither of those two inputs are affected by a land value tax. Therefore the landlord must reach the same decision, regardless of whether there is an LVT or not, and so LVTs have no effect on whether l…

You might think that they'll be motivated to improve the lot in order to be able to pay the LVT, but that rationally doesn't factor in to the decision to improve the land or not. It only affects the price at which the land is bought or sold. I misunderstood the LVT as something that is levied against the landowner every year? And not to be rude, but it seems strange to jump into discussions recommending LVTs as a sol…

> I misunderstood the LVT as something that is levied against the landowner every year?

Yes, but it still doesn't affect the (rational) landowner's decision. Imagine an improvement that can net the owner $Y a year in profit. A rational owner should always make that improvement, regardless of whether the government is also taxing them $X a year on the land.

If they doesn't have the money/capital to do so, they should sell the land to someone else. Obviously not every landowner acts fully rationally, but in the aggregate, landowners should act pretty closely to that model.

Re: No tipping means better business

#73

Post by srinathrajaram »

ezoe wrote: post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

>The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker become underpaid without the tipping, then the worker is underpaid by the employer.

This! Tipping is nothing but the employer passing the buck and guilting the customer.

Re: No tipping means better business

#74

Post by srinathrajaram »

joshontheweb wrote: post #29
lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

Agreed. Tipping culture gives more power to the customer and results in better service in my experience. Every time I come back to the US I experience a noticeable increase in attention and service. Also, when abroad, if they find out you are from the US many servers will put in extra work as they know there is a decent chance you will tip based on your home culture. I always tip even in countries where it isn't expe…

You are probably missing the point. Most people would not mind tipping for good service. It is when the tip is thrust upon you that it becomes a problem. When people start saying stuff like 'oh! you are robbing the waiter of his income', it becomes downright offensive. Tipping should be contingent on good service. It needs to be earned, not demanded to make up for an employer skimping on wage.

Re: No tipping means better business

#75

Post by okonomiyaki3000 »

Having lived in Japan for a long time, I kind of dread visiting America because of the whole nonsense of tipping (and lot of other reasons, really). There's simply no concept of it here and yet the service is excellent. I don't know what the typical wage is but I know people who work in service jobs and seem to have a lot more disposable income than their counterparts in the US.

I also know people who work as servers and bartenders in the US and (predictably) they hate the idea of ending tipping even if it means a higher base wage. I suspect they're wrong but then I don't have to walk in their shoes.

Re: No tipping means better business

#76

Post by untangle »

Federal law and that of some states allows a lower minimum wage for tipped employees. [1] So the financial delta for the restaurant may be bigger than that described.

Blame the powerful restaurateur lobby. [2]

[1] https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

[2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/02/02/464852535/for...

Re: No tipping means better business

#77

Post by srinathrajaram »

danielhooper wrote: post #44

Tipping is great because it provides the customer with some leverage to pay a price they feel is fair. Not to mention it allows many many many many people to live somewhat comfortably despite working in what would be considered a lowly occupation. We haven't even talked about how service workers are salesman and saleswomen who are provided the opportunity to be compensated more for greater achievement, and the busine…

I can and have walked out without tipping when the service was bad.

When I go out to eat, I do so to unwind. The implicit pressure to tip detracts from that experience and I dislike it. It is not a question of what I am capable of doing. It is about not having to deal with the unfairness of an average or a poor waiter demanding to be compensated.

Re: No tipping means better business

#78

Post by csydas »

surrealvortex wrote: post #17

Unless everyone decides to kill tips all at once, this will never work out. No server will work for a fixed 20% increment when they have the potential to get a lot more than that, especially on Saturday nights. There have been plenty of examples of this not working out [1]. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/15/478096516/why...

Very rarely do I cite market forces to address social problems, but to me this feels like an appropriate situation for it. Restaurants are constantly getting applications, and many who do not do well on high-tip nights will appreciate the stable paycheck. I won't put non-sense statistics to it, but while many servers do earn huge paychecks from tips, many others scrape by and fight for hours at minimum wage and have the constant threat of termination looming over them when they aren't able to get enough tips to cover their wages and the restaurant has to pay the difference. (Assuming the restaurant is even operating on the level)

There will be a period of social adjustment and probably some resentment as tipping restaurant hold-outs have servers that brag about huge payouts. But over time the more stable paycheck will be more reliable and better for servers, and while some servers may leave over lack of tips, they will soon find it difficult to find a place that does have a tipping policy.

Re: No tipping means better business

#79

Post by ohwello »

smallnamespace wrote: post #72
kiba wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might think that they'll be motivated to improve the lot in order to be able to pay the LVT, but that rationally doesn't factor in to the decision to improve the land or not. It only affects the price at which the land is bought or sold. I misunderstood the LVT as something that is levied against the landowner every year? And not to be rude, but it seems strange to jump into discussions recommending LVTs as a sol…

> I misunderstood the LVT as something that is levied against the landowner every year? Yes, but it still doesn't affect the (rational) landowner's decision. Imagine an improvement that can net the owner $Y a year in profit. A rational owner should always make that improvement, regardless of whether the government is also taxing them $X a year on the land. If they doesn't have the money/capital to do so, they should…

>Yes, but it still doesn't affect the (rational) landowner's decision. Imagine an improvement that can net the owner $Y a year in profit. A rational owner should always make that improvement, regardless of whether the government is also taxing them $X a year on the land.

It's not just about whether return is positive, it's about the highest ROI considering opportunity cost.

Consider a simple case where two lots with one story of development each can produce as much as a single lot with two stories of development. With a tax on land+improvements, a landlord does not prefer one over the other. With a tax on land value only, the single lot with two stories is preferred.

>If they doesn't have the money/capital to do so, they should sell the land to someone else.

Indeed. If the neighbors have ten stories of development, a landlord with a one-story building will not be able to afford the LVT and will sell to someone who can afford to build ten stories.

Re: No tipping means better business

#80

Post by GordonS »

gkoberger wrote: post #71
coldtea wrote: post #37

> Now what if we were to magically make tipping disappear? Think about the diner for a second. What if, by removing tips from your restaurant, you’ll actually end up delighting more guests, improving your food, and retaining employees? Well, I've dined all over the world (not an American btw), and the US had the most friendly and alert waiting stuff, which I guess it's at least party because of the tipping. Sure, in…

Nah, it's more of a cultural thing. In the US, waitstaff is expected to be attentive and stop by constantly. In other countries, they're expected to leave you alone unless you need them, so you can enjoy your meal without being annoyed. For example, in many countries, they'll never approach you or bring you a check until you flag them down to ask. I think it's less about tipping, and more about customs.

Totally agree with this; customers in different countries have different expectations.

Personally, when I've eaten in the US I've found the waiting staff to be annoying - I just want to be left alone to eat, not pestered with fake smiles and boring pleasantries because they want a tip.

Post reply on HN