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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#61

Post by smallnamespace »

kiba wrote: post #54
smallnamespace wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax#Efficiency A landlord's decision to improve or not improve the property only depends on 1) the cost of the improvements and 2) the expected revenue stream from that improvement, neither of which are affected by an LVT, since the LVT only cares about the unimproved value of the lot.

I can't follow the technical arguments you're making.

You are a landlord. You need to decide whether to make an improvement to your property.

There are only two things you care about:

1. How much money does that improvement bring in?

2. How much does that improvement cost?

Neither of those two inputs are affected by a land value tax. Therefore the landlord must reach the same decision, regardless of whether there is an LVT or not, and so LVTs have no effect on whether landlords improve their property.

You might think that they'll be motivated to improve the lot in order to be able to pay the LVT, but that rationally doesn't factor in to the decision to improve the land or not. It only affects the price of the land (Imposing an LVT makes land prices fall by the discounted future cost of the tax).

And not to be rude, but it seems strange to jump into discussions recommending LVTs as a solution to an economic problem without first understanding basic economic theory.

Re: No tipping means better business

#62

Post by [deleted] »

surrealvortex wrote: post #17

Unless everyone decides to kill tips all at once, this will never work out. No server will work for a fixed 20% increment when they have the potential to get a lot more than that, especially on Saturday nights. There have been plenty of examples of this not working out [1]. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/15/478096516/why...

[deleted]

Re: No tipping means better business

#63

Post by Fife »

pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

Yes, and some of us really appreciate this. I love long lunches and dinners. I hate visiting many US places and feeling rushed.

Sometimes I think American dining is about just food, rather than the whole experience of dining, which includes the conversation with friends and family.

Re: No tipping means better business

#64

Post by downandout »

I lean toward agreeing with this article, however laws would probably have to change in order for it to work. Raising prices, say by 20%, and passing that money directly to servers is fine IMO. That would not only eliminate tipping, but really invest employees in the success of the restaurant. Further, the restaurant could decide the "tip" portion of the price on expensive alcohol as well, eliminating the ridiculousness of calculating the tip for the food and alcohol separately (many people don't tip the full 15-20% on very expensive bottles of wine, for example).

Where this falls down is that tax would then be charged on the raised prices, meaning we're now paying a tax on the "tip". I think many people would find that hard to swallow. So it's a good idea, but local and state tax laws would have to change.

Re: No tipping means better business

#65

Post by pzh »

sgift wrote: post #59
pzh wrote: post #55

The problem with no tipping, in my experince (especially in Europe), is that waiters aren't incentivized to turn tables. If you go to a popular spot for dinner that happens to be completely full and ask for a table, the waiter will usually shrug their shoulders and say 'Sorry, try again tomorrow.' Usually, there is no concept of a waiting list or a waiting time estimate, because diners are conditioned that they can s…

> Of course, if you happen to be the one who got there early, and you like having 3-hour meals while chatting with your friends, it's the perfect arrangement, because nobody will pressure you to eat, pay, and leave in 30-40 mins as usually happens in the US. If I'd like to be pressured to leave asap I would go to a fast food chain. So, this doesn't sound like a problem at all, more like a feature.

It is a nice feature unless you're on the other end of the deal, walking from one completely full restaurant to another looking for a table. In a sense, it's an inefficiency because a table may free up shortly after you leave, but the staff wouldn't care to predict that.

Re: No tipping means better business

#66

Post by colechristensen »

lpr22 wrote: post #51
colechristensen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly seems like it should be more efficient for 100 people to eat dinner in a restaurant than for 40 people to cook 100 meals. (100 / average household size (~2.5) = ~40) And yet it's considerably more expensive. Because, it seems, a considerable amount of the cost of restaurant food goes to the overhead costs of the real-estate owners and the financial system. This is both directly and indirectly (the cost o…

For things like this, since the majority of lawmakers are also real estate owners, it would be a non-starter. But, even if it did happen, I feel like the food costs would just increase to compensate for the taxes, since the rental prices would certainly go up disproportionately.

But food prices _wouldn't_ go up in the owner-operated restaurants which would then have a significant competitive edge. Likewise real estate prices should go down, higher taxes would mean less demand and owner-operators would be more motivated to buy than investors. Likewise investor dollars would be guided by taxes to more productive targets.

Investing in restaurants that own land as opposed to investing in land that restaurants use seems like it would have significantly different effects to the economy.

Re: No tipping means better business

#67

Post by kiba »

smallnamespace wrote: post #61
kiba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't follow the technical arguments you're making.

You are a landlord. You need to decide whether to make an improvement to your property. There are only two things you care about: 1. How much money does that improvement bring in? 2. How much does that improvement cost? Neither of those two inputs are affected by a land value tax. Therefore the landlord must reach the same decision, regardless of whether there is an LVT or not, and so LVTs have no effect on whether l…

You might think that they'll be motivated to improve the lot in order to be able to pay the LVT, but that rationally doesn't factor in to the decision to improve the land or not. It only affects the price at which the land is bought or sold.

I misunderstood the LVT as something that is levied against the landowner every year?

And not to be rude, but it seems strange to jump into discussions recommending LVTs as a solution to an economic problem without understanding basic economic theory.

I read an economist article on it, and I thought that I understood it. Apparently I don't.

I won't be recommending it in the future until I fully understand the consequences.

Re: No tipping means better business

#68

Post by randomdata »

colechristensen wrote: post #31
ahoy wrote: post #3

Is the restaurant industry in need of saving, from a restaurant owner's or diner's perspective? I'm fully on the "tipping is terrible for everyone involved" side, but I wonder if the framing here is based on anything.

It certainly seems like it should be more efficient for 100 people to eat dinner in a restaurant than for 40 people to cook 100 meals. (100 / average household size (~2.5) = ~40) And yet it's considerably more expensive. Because, it seems, a considerable amount of the cost of restaurant food goes to the overhead costs of the real-estate owners and the financial system. This is both directly and indirectly (the cost o…

> And yet it's considerably more expensive.

Even after you've included all of your costs?

It's easy to say the raw food ingredients are considerably less expensive, but that's only a small part of the story. There is a cost of having a kitchen (tools and space in the home), utility costs, not to mention your time.

Maybe a high end specialty restaurant that is selling an experience, but I'd be surprised if you could actually compete with a place like McDonalds on cost.

Re: No tipping means better business

#69

Post by kalleboo »

colechristensen wrote: post #31
ahoy wrote: post #3

Is the restaurant industry in need of saving, from a restaurant owner's or diner's perspective? I'm fully on the "tipping is terrible for everyone involved" side, but I wonder if the framing here is based on anything.

It certainly seems like it should be more efficient for 100 people to eat dinner in a restaurant than for 40 people to cook 100 meals. (100 / average household size (~2.5) = ~40) And yet it's considerably more expensive. Because, it seems, a considerable amount of the cost of restaurant food goes to the overhead costs of the real-estate owners and the financial system. This is both directly and indirectly (the cost o…

> And yet it's considerably more expensive.

Is it? I thought one reason that obesity was higher among people with lower incomes is that it's cheaper for them to buy prepared food than to work an hour less and cook themselves?

If I spent the time I did on cooking on paid work instead, the money I would make could pay for a very good meal. (of course, I don't, I still cook because I can't spend every waking hour working or I'd go insane)

Re: No tipping means better business

#70

Post by _ph_ »

magaman69 wrote: post #2

restaurants will be gone when we all start popping meal pills. The tech is probably 3-4 years out by conservative estimates.

For me, restaurants are not about getting nutrition, they are about enjoying the food and spending a nice time with friends.
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