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9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

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Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#61

Post by tjic »

larksimian wrote: post #53
tjic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one point early in my software career I was between jobs for a few months. I have construction skills, so I worked doing demolition and then framing an addition for a friend at $10/hr. To quote Pulp Fiction "The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps." Over a couple of weeks I made a few thousand dollars, paid the mortgage, and g…

But pride did help Butch in Pulp Fiction. He got to win the fight, keep his pride and keep the money(or even bet the other way and make bank? can't recall now). Personally, I agree with your point of view. There is, however, something to be said for people that never settle and by force of will reshape the world around them to conform to their expectations.

There is something called survivorship bias. IT means that the selection that you happen to see is the selection that is visible, because it accidentally survived.

Steve Jobs is great an inspiring, because he did X and Y and Z and never compromised his standards.

You know what? You happen to know of Steve Jobs because everything worked out well for him.

There may very well be 20,000 other people who refused to compromise their standards...and perhaps that strategy really sucks and the other 20,000 of them went bankrupt and are working at used car lots now.

"Never settling" sounds great.

I'm not 100% convinced that it is.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#62

Post by tjic »

endymi0n wrote: post #47
yummyfajitas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy seems to fall into that category: "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job...I would be too humiliated... It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas." This is a definitive example of the prideful worker effect…

That being said, the prideful worker effect is very real though. I remember when my mom told me how her nightshifts in the sausage factory as a student made her more humble - and I thought "what a waste - I'm going to step in high and then get really rich so I don't have to do this!". Six years and three failed university degrees later, I started in night shifts myself in customer support because I had no other optio…

Congrats from working up from the bottom, busting your ass, and achieving your dreams.

That's an inspiring story.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#63

Post by yummyfajitas »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #35

To anyone recommending different approaches that could help this guy get a job - look at it from the other side. There are 9 million unemployed men such as this one (according to the article). This doesn't mean that there are 9 million job openings out there, just waiting for someone with the right resume to show up. Sure, there are probably some, but mostly, this simply means there are 9 million more workers than jo…

This guy openly admits he could find work, but doesn't due to his pride. There are lots of jobs out there that Americans (like this guy) "just won't do". He's in the bay area, I know that Handy and Uber are hiring. It won't be hard for him to find domestic labor for $12/hour.

After das trumpenfuhrer builds his wall and deports the illegals, there will be about 10M job openings.

Lets be realistic and acknowledge that this guy will refuse to take every single one of those 10M jobs.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#64

Post by goshx »

What caught my eye is the fact that the author is surrounded by well paid people in the same field but he is not leveraging the Network that is at his disposal because he doesn't want to tell them the truth. To me this is the key of the issue. Asking for help may bring you the help you need, while not asking at all definitely won't bring you anything.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#65

Post by cabinguy »

sharemywin wrote: post #3

I think this focus in corporate america and startups on "winner take all" and only hire elite is hurting the economy. Because we've allowed monopolies for so long and they've multiplied, it's great for companies and investors, horrible for the economy at large.

I agree. Capitalism is by far the best system, but its glory days (in the U.S.) have passed us by. I drove through the downtown area of my hometown this past weekend and tried to convince my wife that it was once a vibrant business district. When I was a kid in the 80's, every storefront was filled with local businesses bearing family names. Today there is only a collection of small-town dive bars, a tattoo shop and a gas station.

Of course there is a Target, Walmart, Home improvement center & large furniture store out on the highway that squeezed the life out of the family businesses a long time ago. It's really sad.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#66

Post by funkyy »

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #24
M4v3R wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not an engineer though, at least from what I read in the article. He wrote: > I was still able to get customer support position quickly, learning skills on the job > My background in IT and customer support, both considered the bottom rung at most tech companies, meant that I was expendable So it seems he didn't really have higher qualifications, working in customer support, which is nowadays often outsourced an…

> I feel sympathy for the author, but at the same time one thing that I miss from the article is whether he tried to raise his qualifications in any way. Did he try other market segments? Picked up any courses? Broadened his education in any way in the time he was unemployed? Raising qualifications usually costs money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high th…

>Raising qualifications usually cost money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high that he couldn't afford it and was focused on the immediate need to get another job. Strategic thinking and action is actually a bit of a luxury.

Codecademy is for free and can teach you to code and earn some money within 1-2 months time if you can commit yourself. And that is just one example of rising qualifications for free. You do not need a degree when you are a freelancer.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#67

Post by pavel_lishin »

> There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job to help out with extra cash. But I’m worried about getting stuck in a position with even less room for growth than my previous jobs. And to be honest, I would be too humiliated. Our social circle, made up of mostly well-paid tech workers and professionals, has no idea how bad our situation has been. It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas.

Seriously? You're living in a house your mother gave you, and you've got two children to feed, and you don't want to work at a gas station because you'd be embarrassed?

Is this a weird cultural thing, where ten years of Russian upbringing followed by a decade plus in Texas, both rural in urban makes me incapable of feeling sympathy for a man who'd be too embarrassed to be seen feeding his family?

How is that more shameful than writing an article for the world, admitting that you're too scared of a bit of social stigma to get a temporary job to help you get by?

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#68

Post by matwood »

roflchoppa wrote: post #28
swamp40 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just met a retired plumber when he charged us $500 to clear roots out of our main line. He said he had to shut down his business - couldn't find anyone willing to learn the trade. He said no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore. He said it's a shame, they could basically charge as much as they like - write their own tickets.

yeah my dad made me learn all that shit at my uncles old house. was worth it, if you have kids and are reading this right now, teach them to fix stuff, its a gift that keeps on giving.

Same here. It baffles me when I hear friends talking about not knowing how to do simple fixes.

As an aside, my wife and I do home improvement projects 'for fun'. Our largest so far was updating a bathroom. Youtube is amazing for learning, and worst case you end up hiring someone to fix what you broke :)

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#69

Post by tomschlick »

vivekd wrote: post #14
tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

The problem is education is tailored towards particular jobs. For example if you have a degree in biology, sure you can get a job in a factory paying almost minimum wage. . . but it wouldn't pay enough for you to cover your student loans and still be able to move out. There seems to be a serious lack of jobs that let people actually have a life. . . and I'm not talking about picket fence in the suburbs dream home kin…

Then they should stop getting degrees in industries that don't exist / have very few job openings. Get a degree in business, accounting, finance, engineering, or tech and your chances of finding a good paying job increase ten fold.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#70

Post by jotato »

quickben wrote: post #54

There is nothing embarrassing about manual work. When I was 17, at one point, I sold toilet paper, on the street, in a third world country, to get some cash for my PC. Various jobs netted me half the cash for my PC over 6 months. My parents could scrape for the rest. 486dx-120mhz. Right now I'm in a comfortable seniority, renting a townhouse ( Toronto is too expensive to buy) and having a family. The c++ projects kee…

You had Patents at 17?! Kudos! ;)

My parents taught me the same way. I have worked many manual labor jobs, and I wouldn't blink an eye to go back if I had to. I wouldn't enjoy it but I have a family to support and I do what I must

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