9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them • Hacker News Board

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#21

Post by swamp40 » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:17 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I just met a retired plumber when he charged us $500 to clear roots out of our main line.

He said he had to shut down his business - couldn't find anyone willing to learn the trade.

He said no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore.

He said it's a shame, they could basically charge as much as they like - write their own tickets.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#22

Post by tjic » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:17 PM UTC

cijt wrote: post #20

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

Wonderful counterpoint, and I entirely agree with you!

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#23

Post by tjic » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:18 PM UTC

arcanus wrote: post #15

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

> This is a highly overconstrained search Yes and no. It can speak to structural inefficiencies in the economy. For instance, I am a Computational Scientist with a decade of experience in scientific research, publications, etc. It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field, for instance. Underemployment is a very real thing, and it hurts the entire economy. We as a society have a vest…

> It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field

This is an example of what I'm talking about.

What's more of a waste of your training? To be work in a career field only 60% overlapping with your training, or to be unemployed (with 0% overlap) ?

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#24

Post by DashRattlesnake » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

M4v3R wrote: post #7

flippy2 wrote: post #5

Honestly. If the author can't make it in SV due to having a rough ride they should look outside the area. There are plenty of companies needing IT workers across the USA and moving to one of them sounds like a good way for him to get back on his feet.

He's not an engineer though, at least from what I read in the article. He wrote: > I was still able to get customer support position quickly, learning skills on the job > My background in IT and customer support, both considered the bottom rung at most tech companies, meant that I was expendable So it seems he didn't really have higher qualifications, working in customer support, which is nowadays often outsourced an…

> I feel sympathy for the author, but at the same time one thing that I miss from the article is whether he tried to raise his qualifications in any way. Did he try other market segments? Picked up any courses? Broadened his education in any way in the time he was unemployed?

Raising qualifications usually costs money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high that he couldn't afford it and was focused on the immediate need to get another job. Strategic thinking and action is actually a bit of a luxury.

He wrote:

> Often, the jobs I could get were so disposable that I was never given responsibilities that could help me grow into a promotion, no matter how hard I pushed.

> Even though my wife works a steady job, money has been tight — we’ve gone through periods where we’ve had only $30 to support a family of four for a whole week. Slipping into neurotic budgeting mode has become a well-rehearsed drill at this point. We cancel [all of the things]...

> [W]e’re still living paycheck to paycheck. We’ve cashed out most of our savings accounts, including retirement, and haven’t been able to replenish them.

> Every day involves endlessly scrolling through a list of jobs on Indeed.com and applying here and there with full knowledge that 99 percent of the time, I’ll never hear back.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#25

Post by tjic » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #13

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

This guy seems to fall into that category: "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job...I would be too humiliated... It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas." This is a definitive example of the prideful worker effect…

At one point early in my software career I was between jobs for a few months.

I have construction skills, so I worked doing demolition and then framing an addition for a friend at $10/hr.

To quote Pulp Fiction

"The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps."

Over a couple of weeks I made a few thousand dollars, paid the mortgage, and got some exercise.

...and, besides, there's nothing embarrassing about using your hands and your back.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#26

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

This. I'd feed puppies into a wood chipper with a smile on my face if the pay was good enough.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#27

Post by DashRattlesnake » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

flippy2 wrote: post #5

Honestly. If the author can't make it in SV due to having a rough ride they should look outside the area. There are plenty of companies needing IT workers across the USA and moving to one of them sounds like a good way for him to get back on his feet.

He's got a bunch of kids and a wife. Moving might not make sense. Kids will cause more stress if they're unhappy in a new location, and how do you move the current sole bread winner? She'd have to find a job in the same area as him, meaning you're looking for two jobs instead of one. Also proximity to the in laws is worth something too.

> Also proximity to the in laws is worth something too.

They also have a non-portable living situation.

> Since moving to my mom’s old house after she switched to a retirement home, our living costs are considerably cheaper than the mortgage we once paid.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#28

Post by roflchoppa » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

swamp40 wrote: post #21

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I just met a retired plumber when he charged us $500 to clear roots out of our main line. He said he had to shut down his business - couldn't find anyone willing to learn the trade. He said no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore. He said it's a shame, they could basically charge as much as they like - write their own tickets.

yeah my dad made me learn all that shit at my uncles old house. was worth it, if you have kids and are reading this right now, teach them to fix stuff, its a gift that keeps on giving.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#29

Post by vthallam » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

cijt wrote: post #20

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

This wouldn't work unless the employer we are talking about is a software/tech company where they can hire remote/setup a office with very less money. On the other side, people who work on industries which are located on certain areas has to move there to be placed.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#30

Post by M4v3R » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #24

M4v3R wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not an engineer though, at least from what I read in the article. He wrote: > I was still able to get customer support position quickly, learning skills on the job > My background in IT and customer support, both considered the bottom rung at most tech companies, meant that I was expendable So it seems he didn't really have higher qualifications, working in customer support, which is nowadays often outsourced an…

> I feel sympathy for the author, but at the same time one thing that I miss from the article is whether he tried to raise his qualifications in any way. Did he try other market segments? Picked up any courses? Broadened his education in any way in the time he was unemployed? Raising qualifications usually costs money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high th…

> Every day involves endlessly scrolling through a list of jobs on Indeed.com and applying here and there with full knowledge that 99 percent of the time, I’ll never hear back.

That means he is literally wasting time, which he could use in other, more productive ways. Sorry, but if I would be 99 percent sure that something I do will bring me 0 benefits, I would stop and do something else.

If you don't have money to raise your qualifications you can still apply for unpaid practice in many places. It will not help with finances immediately, but will make looking for job easier afterwards.