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9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

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Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#51

Post by jgw »

tjic wrote: post #22
cijt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

Wonderful counterpoint, and I entirely agree with you!

"I see what you did there," as they say elsewhere on the Internet.

Nifty little device to make a an important point.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#52

Post by WalterBright »

swamp40 wrote: post #21
tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I just met a retired plumber when he charged us $500 to clear roots out of our main line. He said he had to shut down his business - couldn't find anyone willing to learn the trade. He said no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore. He said it's a shame, they could basically charge as much as they like - write their own tickets.

I once had some plumbers do some minor repairs around the house. Then they gave me a whopping bill. I had no idea.

But I had watched what they did, and nothing seemed that complicated. Ever since, I just do the plumbing repairs myself for a couple bucks instead of several hundred.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#53

Post by larksimian »

tjic wrote: post #25
yummyfajitas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy seems to fall into that category: "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job...I would be too humiliated... It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas." This is a definitive example of the prideful worker effect…

At one point early in my software career I was between jobs for a few months. I have construction skills, so I worked doing demolition and then framing an addition for a friend at $10/hr. To quote Pulp Fiction "The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps." Over a couple of weeks I made a few thousand dollars, paid the mortgage, and g…

But pride did help Butch in Pulp Fiction. He got to win the fight, keep his pride and keep the money(or even bet the other way and make bank? can't recall now).

Personally, I agree with your point of view. There is, however, something to be said for people that never settle and by force of will reshape the world around them to conform to their expectations.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#54

Post by quickben »

There is nothing embarrassing about manual work. When I was 17, at one point, I sold toilet paper, on the street, in a third world country, to get some cash for my PC. Various jobs netted me half the cash for my PC over 6 months. My parents could scrape for the rest.

486dx-120mhz.

Right now I'm in a comfortable seniority, renting a townhouse ( Toronto is too expensive to buy) and having a family. The c++ projects keep coming, I don't have to work with anything other than my fingers. Life is good.

Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt.

They raised me to believe there is no shame in manual work, and I still hold that true.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#55

Post by tomjen3 »

cijt wrote: post #20
tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

I don't see why you needed to post that, especially as the point is tangential to your parent post.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#56

Post by scarmig »

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

There have always been people who can't find a job under those conditions. The question is why that proportion of men is higher now than it was a decade or two or three ago.

Moralizing about how they're all too lazy and prideful to get a job is itself lazy. At least take the step to identify why you think the number of the prideful lazy has increased.

Also: you said you've been in the workforce for 25 years. Have you considered that not everyone shares your particular history of entering into the workforce right before an extended boom time? That's a huge difference from people who entered in 2008, only found a paying job in 2010, and as a consequence of timing are behind people who graduated a year or two later than them.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#57

Post by kevinml »

tjic wrote: post #25
yummyfajitas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy seems to fall into that category: "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job...I would be too humiliated... It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas." This is a definitive example of the prideful worker effect…

At one point early in my software career I was between jobs for a few months. I have construction skills, so I worked doing demolition and then framing an addition for a friend at $10/hr. To quote Pulp Fiction "The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps." Over a couple of weeks I made a few thousand dollars, paid the mortgage, and g…

I'm about 4 years into my career as a software dev, but you know what I did before that? Worked a shitty manual labor job at a warehouse with shitty 13-hour days and not a lot of pay.

I rarely got to see my friends who were more successful starting their own careers. But what I did have is money to pay my rent and free time to continue learning and honing my skills.

Yeah it really sucked working in that warehouse and it was embarrassing a little bit. I used that as motivation. Fuck pride indeed.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#58

Post by yabatopia »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #26
tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

This. I'd feed puppies into a wood chipper with a smile on my face if the pay was good enough.

I'd rather die from starvation than doing that. What's next on your job bucket list: operating the gas chambers in Auschwitz? If only it would pay a little bit better?

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#59

Post by mcguire »

alvaromuir wrote: post #33

Here's the thing. A: in 7 years he couldve gone back to school to learn something else B: most smaller schools I know waive tuition if your unemployed. C: What's this idea of "stopped looking for work" ? And people say all of us minorities are the ones who want handouts. I've supported a family of 3 on $36k. In New York City. It wasn't easy but I had to do what I had to do.

"...most smaller schools I know waive tuition if your unemployed."

Could you provide a few examples? I've never heard of such a thing.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#60

Post by tjic »

mcguire wrote: post #36
tjic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful counterpoint, and I entirely agree with you!

They're both true. Sometimes the supply and demand curves don't meet.

I think this is incorrect.

Supply and demand curves _ALWAYS_ meet. It's just that the point where they meet tells you what the market-clearing price is.

Sometimes this information makes one sad.

Managers who "can't hire good people" are sad because good people cost more than they want to pay.

Employees who "can't find a job" are sad because jobs that match their skills and other requirements pay less than they want to receive.

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