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9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

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Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not an engineer though, at least from what I read in the article. He wrote: > I was still able to get customer support position quickly, learning skills on the job > My background in IT and customer support, both considered the bottom rung at most tech companies, meant that I was expendable So it seems he didn't really have higher qualifications, working in customer support, which is nowadays often outsourced an…

> I feel sympathy for the author, but at the same time one thing that I miss from the article is whether he tried to raise his qualifications in any way. Did he try other market segments? Picked up any courses? Broadened his education in any way in the time he was unemployed? Raising qualifications usually costs money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high th…

Raising qualifications usually costs money

Browsing twitter from 9AM to 1:15PM (an activity he mentions he does) costs the same amount of money as working through codeacademy.com or learn python the hard way.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#32
post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

Example: https://www.pinterest.com/mstefanow/jobs-in-london/

15 minutes walk and I was able to find 8 retails job offers. It was 4G upload speed that was slowing me down adding new posts...

Jobs are everywhere and I couldn't agree more: "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else."

Ditto.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#33
Here's the thing.

A: in 7 years he couldve gone back to school to learn something else B: most smaller schools I know waive tuition if your unemployed.

C: What's this idea of "stopped looking for work" ? And people say all of us minorities are the ones who want handouts. I've supported a family of 3 on $36k. In New York City. It wasn't easy but I had to do what I had to do.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#34
post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

You can't ignore the fact that once you get off the merry-go-round it becomes incredibly hard to get back on. There's something to be said for holding out for a job that fits with your skills, standard of living, and expectations. If we're a land so flush with opportunity and markets are working like so many of its adherents like to claim this should work fine, right?

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#35
To anyone recommending different approaches that could help this guy get a job - look at it from the other side.

There are 9 million unemployed men such as this one (according to the article). This doesn't mean that there are 9 million job openings out there, just waiting for someone with the right resume to show up. Sure, there are probably some, but mostly, this simply means there are 9 million more workers than jobs.

Educating the unemployed will only help individuals beat someone else in the competition of scoring a job, it won't help unemployment as a whole.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#36
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

Wonderful counterpoint, and I entirely agree with you!

They're both true. Sometimes the supply and demand curves don't meet.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#37
post #23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a highly overconstrained search Yes and no. It can speak to structural inefficiencies in the economy. For instance, I am a Computational Scientist with a decade of experience in scientific research, publications, etc. It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field, for instance. Underemployment is a very real thing, and it hurts the entire economy. We as a society have a vest…

> It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field This is an example of what I'm talking about. What's more of a waste of your training? To be work in a career field only 60% overlapping with your training, or to be unemployed (with 0% overlap) ?

Great point. Better to be employed than not, and of course no job is a perfect fit.

Would be interesting to count one as being only 60% employed, in the example you give. So if you had 100 million people all employed at 60% fit, that's an 'effective' employment of 60 million. Of course, I have no idea how one might measure that.

But I am not an economist, there may be similar (or superior) measures for underemployment.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#38
Lots of people ask, here and on other forums, things like: "Should I get/finish a CS(or other technical) degree? what's the point?"

If nothing else, it give you credentials to help avoid this sort of situation in the field you wish to work in.

Not many employers look for humanities majors to run their IT when there are many other applicants with credentials.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#39
What I want to tell the author...

Buddy, you're in a rut. You're only 47 -- that means you've got 20-25 more years to work. If you do it right and earn the ability to retire. What happened yesterday is done. It's tomorrow you have to focus on. The only race is with yourself.

You're letting the world get you down, and there's no reason for that. Every day is a new day to reinvent yourself; learn a new skill, fix a character trait you don't like / or that isn't working. Humans are fluid, adaptable. But... if you don't constantly seek change by perpetually improving yourself, you'll have to deal with change imposed on you by others -- making your own choices is how you stay empowered.

Going to go through a bit more, point-by-point, and highlight why I feel this article is a cautionary tale.

> While I majored in the humanities, I was still able to get customer support position quickly, learning skills on the job.

So why not learn to code? You lived through the dot-com boom... no reason why you couldn't pick up a book and get more into technology. You've been around technology longer than some startup CEOs have been alive. Stop standing still, there are plenty of online resources and courses on how to learn new skills.

> Budgeting has become a well-rehearsed drill

Everyone should budget. If you don't have money you need to. If you have money and you don't budget, well... you'll probably need to soon enough. Also... move. Plenty of places that are a lot cheaper than California.

> The job hunting process is pure drudgery

See previous point... you need to keep working on improving yourself. The job process is "drudgery" because the market is saying, "We don't want what you're selling, go get something else and sell that." Additionally, if you ever get to this point where you are feeling down and out and hopeless... why would anyone want to hire you? Take the time you need to collect yourself, come back fresh. Again... not so much a choice, you won't have success trying to apply for jobs if your head isn't in the game -- so either you choose to take the time to get better, or you continue in a rut.

> The days are long and boring

So, you have lots of time to learn new skills, new technology, new platforms, or just read books? My mom used to tell me when I was growing up, "Only boring people get bored." If you're depressed, and it sounds like you are, just focus on moving. Walk as far as you can in a day. Try to beat your high score the next day... until you feel like doing something else.

> There’s social stigma

There's a stigma around saying, "I'm a failure, I'm a failure." Look at failure as an opportunity to learn. You talked about "being a consultant" and there's no reason why you can't be a consultant... fake it until you make it... all that. Maybe 1% of real SEO consultants know what they're doing... they all seem to make money off it (and even to be in that 1% doesn't take that much knowledge) -- an example of a non-technical job you can self-teach yourself into.

Seven years off... I have to think there's something going on here. Possible someone is enabling you to make shitty life choices that put you in a depression spiral? You have the time, you have the ability, you the resources (as most of them are free and just require a computer)... you just to start taking small steps. Learn HTML + CSS, learn SEO, learn JavaScript... learn how to install WordPress themes (literally no coding required), learn how to use HubSpot, or Google Analyitcs, or any of the huge assortment of tools that people can make a living off of using. And don't stop learning.

Set goals for yourself, and be wary of anyone who makes it easy to ignore those goals... Yes, it sucks to fail... and it's nice to have a warm bed to come home to -- win or lose... but when given the choice... skip the easy path (rut), go for the challenge -- that's how you learn and grow. The solution to your problems isn't on the easy path, you say you've been on that path for 7 years without success... time to try something new.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#40
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just met a retired plumber when he charged us $500 to clear roots out of our main line. He said he had to shut down his business - couldn't find anyone willing to learn the trade. He said no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore. He said it's a shame, they could basically charge as much as they like - write their own tickets.

yeah my dad made me learn all that shit at my uncles old house. was worth it, if you have kids and are reading this right now, teach them to fix stuff, its a gift that keeps on giving.

Agreed 100%. Growing up we didn't have money to hire people to do this stuff for us. I learned how to paint, how to hang drywall, how to do basic plumbing, how to lay flooring (tile, carpet, and wood), and odd jobs like replacing crown molding.

I'd add basic mechanics to this list -- things like changing my own oil and replacing my own battery have saved me a TON of money and there's a satisfaction that comes from being able to fix your own stuff.

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