Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#281

Post by TheRealDunkirk » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:16 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #277

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're not different from anyone else for having a profit motive, but Microsoft, on the other hand, had a very long stretch of using underhanded and illegal tactics to stifle competition. I would argue that they're STILL abusing their monopoly position on the desktop. THAT is what makes them different than the rest, and that, to me, is what tempers my attitude about these recent announcements. Another difference…

But you're never going to get Windows-forms-like applications on Windows You absolutely will be able to get Windows-forms like applications. You just won't be using WinForms or WPF. Instead, you'll use Mono and its bindings to GTK or QT. This is exactly how it should be. WPF is an OS specific GUI library. Using WPF on Linux makes about as much sense as using Cocoa on Windows. But, really, I think it's another example…

> Instead, you'll use Mono and its bindings to GTK or QT. This is exactly how it should be.

Oh, I'm quite clear. My point is that, if the stack had delivered on the premise of the idea of WinForms-level-easy GUI development, why haven't Mono-based GUI apps proliferated on Linux? Yet, after many years of including Mono in Ubuntu, they've pulled it from the default install.

> Microsoft had a project to write its own Java compiler. Sun took legal action to prevent Microsoft from doing so. And this was during the early 2000s. Python, Ruby, etc. were nowhere near mature enough to serve as the primary systems programming language for something like Windows.

Fair enough, but even all the way back in 2000, it was obvious that, if you were going to start from scratch on a language, there was no point in making it closed. There wasn't any more real money to be made in compilers by that point. GCC was being made available on everything, and $1,000 proprietary compilers were dying out.

> Isn't that just slightly hypocritical?

Sigh.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#282

Post by blub » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:19 PM UTC

quanticle wrote: post #277

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're not different from anyone else for having a profit motive, but Microsoft, on the other hand, had a very long stretch of using underhanded and illegal tactics to stifle competition. I would argue that they're STILL abusing their monopoly position on the desktop. THAT is what makes them different than the rest, and that, to me, is what tempers my attitude about these recent announcements. Another difference…

But you're never going to get Windows-forms-like applications on Windows You absolutely will be able to get Windows-forms like applications. You just won't be using WinForms or WPF. Instead, you'll use Mono and its bindings to GTK or QT. This is exactly how it should be. WPF is an OS specific GUI library. Using WPF on Linux makes about as much sense as using Cocoa on Windows. But, really, I think it's another example…

Sun cut off MS from Java because MS was creating an incompatible version of Java. That's the extend step.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#283

Post by blakeyrat » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

tigershark wrote: post #271

blakeyrat wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have different priorities than you. In terms of IDE quality, debugger quality, flexibility (ability to use actual threads if you want them!), performance... in my opinion .NET Core is already so far ahead of Node.JS it's embarrassing for them. The only thing I might stack in Node.JS' favor is their NPM package manager. Maybe. Possibly.

Are you seriously saying that NuGet/paket are worse than a flawed package manager that even managed to cause a JavaScript global outage when a padding package was retired? What are your problems with NuGet and paket?

Re-read my post.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#284

Post by cutler » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

supernovae wrote: post #266

cutler wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you love the fact that MS earns millions from patent trolling Linux companies? How's that for open source "support"?

All of that was prior leadership. Satya has largely reversed this trend (which wasn't limited to Microsoft) and has gone the polar opposite of open source licensing a-la BSD/Apache licenses (no strings attached) and joining the Linux foundation.

As far as I'm aware MS are still operating their Linux patents extortion racket. What on earth were the Linux Foundation thinking when they allowed MS to become a member? It seems the Linux Foundation is little more than a corporate jamboree.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#285

Post by Shorel » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #205

yummyfajitas wrote: post #144

I recently bought a Lenovo sporting Windows 10 and decided to give it a fair try. I've been using Windows exclusively on my personal laptop for about 2 months and so far it's a good experience. This is after 16 years of running linux (or briefly a mac) on the desktop. The window manager is tolerable (not as good as Xmonad, but equivalent to Unity). Windows subsystem for linux is letting me get my work done with no pr…

I have not used windows in a while, but the 2 things I found annoying with Microsoft and the reasons why I switched around 8 years back were: 1) Most of the windows laptops doesn't age very well. By the 3rd year the computer starts feeling like its become quite old. I needed hardware upgrades every year to keep my computer running. One of my friends suggested me to try Apple. I am running a Mac pro which is almost 5…

You could just reinstall Windows every year instead of buying new hardware.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#286

Post by shmerl » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 11:20 PM UTC

kijiki wrote: post #228

shmerl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I like to put Debian sticker on my laptop. Otherwise people assume I'm using Windows. Kind of silly, but years of Windows domination brainwashed people.

I've been completely unable to find a Debian sticker that: a) is big enough to see from more than 3 feet away b) that works on a black laptop. Do you know of a good supplier?

Here is one: https://www.unixstickers.com

Examples:

* https://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/linux_os_distribution_...

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#287

Post by dozzie » Sun, Dec 18, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

scholia wrote: post #217

DesiLurker wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same experience, it seems everytime I open my win10 laptop the damn thing does updates for many minutes. my windows desktop is more well behaved though. it seems it needs to be actively used so it always stays updated. not an apple fan by a longshot but my office macbook is always ready to be used whenever I open it, even if I do it after weeks. MS really needs to get their shit together especially on the…

If you have an unusual usage pattern -- eg you only turn your laptop on twice a month or so -- I guess you're going to get a backlog of updates. If you check the update settings, you can set "active hours" when it won't update, or a custom update time when your machine will be on. Our laptops are not having problems but they are in regular use...

  [dozzie@alojzy dozzie]$ uptime
   02:29:42 up 53 days, 11:03,  2 users,  load average: 0.11, 0.19, 0.18

  [dozzie@wolfram dozzie]$ uptime 
   02:29:49 up 9 days, 14:20,  1 user,  load average: 0.25, 0.24, 0.26

One is my desktop, the other is my laptop. What was it with this "unusual usage pattern" thing?

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#288

Post by eropple » Sun, Dec 18, 2016, 5:04 AM UTC

digler999 wrote: post #250

freehunter wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show how damaging FUD actually is. Someone made up this fear and people still believe it even when the proof is literally everywhere. They just don't want to look, repeating a lie is easier.

It's more nuanced than just FUD. I admit I may have been wrong and that the surface 4 might work on linux. but its disingenuous to call my position FUD. at least according to this [1] article, MS requires secure boot in win 10. and the criticisms about UEFI and how it makes linux much more difficult to install (which I have experienced firsthand) are documented on wikipedia [2]. I'm going to enjoy my friday evening a…

It really isn't disingenuous to call it FUD. A simple Google search would've clued you in. You don't have to mean to spread FUD to spread FUD, and you should own it and stop.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#289

Post by ec109685 » Sun, Dec 18, 2016, 7:31 AM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #144

I recently bought a Lenovo sporting Windows 10 and decided to give it a fair try. I've been using Windows exclusively on my personal laptop for about 2 months and so far it's a good experience. This is after 16 years of running linux (or briefly a mac) on the desktop. The window manager is tolerable (not as good as Xmonad, but equivalent to Unity). Windows subsystem for linux is letting me get my work done with no pr…

The linked to mac experience is 6 years old.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#290

Post by stewbrew » Sun, Dec 18, 2016, 8:12 AM UTC

joe_fro wrote: post #229

aswerty wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a massive fan of .NET and MVC as a development stack and think VS is the bees knees when it comes to my IDE (with a Vi plugin of course). But I'm hugely excited about .NET Core for the sole reason of abandoning the Windows OS. It really is a horror, it comes bundled with crapware which gets reinstalled when a major update is applied, the major updates are foisted upon you whether you want them or not, after a maj…

What bothers me is that all the data collection is on by default. If I purchase something I expect it to have my best interests at heart, if I get something for free I expect it to have the providers best interests at heart. Since you buy your computer, all data collection should be opt in. If Microsoft wants to give me a free computer, then make it opt out.

Even a development tool like .Net core phones home to send telemetry data.