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Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

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Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#241

Post by quanticle »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #160
supernovae wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these kind of comments depressing mostly because they scream "group think". (my inner circle says this, so I repeat it) The new MS is much different than the MS I grew up with in the 90s. It's time for the community to recognize this and just let people bask in positive news that is worthy the bask in. I love my Surface Pro 4, I love the fact .net is cross platform, I love that Azure is fast and easy to use, I…

I actually suffered through corporate pressure against my use of Linux for applications I developed (and users LOVED), because of the press onslaught in the trade magazines about the ridiculous SCO trial. (And then I see from a comment above that this is being appealed. Still. 13 years later. OMG.) So, my cynicism may be intractable. You may see a "new" Microsoft, but all I see is a Microsoft which is making moves th…

I credit Nadella for this, but none of this is due to some sort of newfound egalitarianism or philanthropy. It's just business.

So, how does that make the outcome any worse? RedHat isn't contributing to the Linux kernel out of a sense of charity. IBM isn't contributing to OpenStack as a philanthropic endeavor. Facebook isn't improving PHP because it's a fun hobby project. They're all doing the things that they're doing because it's good for business. Why is it any worse when Microsoft does it?

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#242

Post by rubyfan »

stcredzero wrote: post #73
rubyfan wrote: post #70

This article loses credibility with the opening line... FTA: After years of missteps, the software giant is among the few titans of the 1990s to figure out the new world of mobile technology and cloud computing. Saying MSFT have figured out mobile is a little too much of a stretch. They have tried many things in the space, they have figured out more of what doesn't work than what does. Unfortunately the market doesn'…

It takes learnings to get to earnings or to have any other worthwhile yearnings.

You need to be on the right end of more successes than failures otherwise you learnings aren't worth much.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#243

Post by freehunter »

eropple wrote: post #215
digler999 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont follow your point. I'm not asking MS to sell me a linux version of their tablet. I"m saying they shouldn't use UEFI or other proprietary bootloader tricks to keep me from wiping windows off and installing my own software on it. That would be cheaper for them to do than spending extra development time to keep me out.

But...you can do that. Right now. The Surface Pro 4 has no "bootloader tricks"; it has Secure Boot, which you can disable from the UEFI menu. No x86 Surface ever has ever had any "physical" methods of "locking you out of their competition". So either you want something that already exists or you want something new, and I'm very confused as to your initial post.

Just goes to show how damaging FUD actually is. Someone made up this fear and people still believe it even when the proof is literally everywhere. They just don't want to look, repeating a lie is easier.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#244

Post by noinsight »

joe_fro wrote: post #229
aswerty wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a massive fan of .NET and MVC as a development stack and think VS is the bees knees when it comes to my IDE (with a Vi plugin of course). But I'm hugely excited about .NET Core for the sole reason of abandoning the Windows OS. It really is a horror, it comes bundled with crapware which gets reinstalled when a major update is applied, the major updates are foisted upon you whether you want them or not, after a maj…

What bothers me is that all the data collection is on by default. If I purchase something I expect it to have my best interests at heart, if I get something for free I expect it to have the providers best interests at heart. Since you buy your computer, all data collection should be opt in. If Microsoft wants to give me a free computer, then make it opt out.

Windows in general does not respect you as its user. I refuse to use software like that. If you want to use software that respects you you'll usually have to use open source. But indeed, what makes it especially egregious is the fact that you're even paying for it.

(It will update itself whether you want to or not and reboot by itself unless you're on Enterprise, etc.)

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#245

Post by Arnavion »

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #205
yummyfajitas wrote: post #144

I recently bought a Lenovo sporting Windows 10 and decided to give it a fair try. I've been using Windows exclusively on my personal laptop for about 2 months and so far it's a good experience. This is after 16 years of running linux (or briefly a mac) on the desktop. The window manager is tolerable (not as good as Xmonad, but equivalent to Unity). Windows subsystem for linux is letting me get my work done with no pr…

I have not used windows in a while, but the 2 things I found annoying with Microsoft and the reasons why I switched around 8 years back were: 1) Most of the windows laptops doesn't age very well. By the 3rd year the computer starts feeling like its become quite old. I needed hardware upgrades every year to keep my computer running. One of my friends suggested me to try Apple. I am running a Mac pro which is almost 5…

>Windows still doesn't have a decent way to tail the logs!!!

    cat -Wait foo.log

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#246

Post by ebbv »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #234
ebbv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they aren't. Kinect was using motion tracking and stereo vision technology that already existed. They just refined it and it was clearly a dead end. Also it was just a "me too" response to the success of the Wii. Surface studio is just a big touch screen. Nothing new. HoloLens is the most innovative but again this kind of AR has been around for a while, it's a refinement and I think it will just be a dead end lik…

> "the web" Okay, but that's sort of technological shift is rare. Nothing else in my lifetime has come close. >"home broadband" Just a refinement of the web. >"Linux" Linux is based on designs from the 70s, it was old before it was first released. >"smartphones" I hope you realise smartphones did not start with the iPhone. The smartphone has gone through a long period of iterative design improvements. If you're looki…

> >"home broadband"

> Just a refinement of the web.

What? Not remotely. It enables the web but the underlying technologies are totally different. Home broadband also enabled a lot of other things. Your statement makes me think you don't actually understand technology at all.

> Linux is based on designs from the 70s, it was old before it was first released.

Again you're failing to understand what was revolutionary here. GNU had been around for quite a while. It's Linux that was revolutionary. It's a kernel that worked well and that people could contribute to and package up with GNU to enable operating systems of very high quality.

> I hope you realise smartphones did not start with the iPhone. The smartphone has gone through a long period of iterative design improvements.

Aye carumba. What were called smartphones before the iPhone were awful. WinCE was a disaster, and Blackberries were a niche tool for a niche market. iOS and Android devices made computing usable on a mobile platform by everyone for the first time.

Of course everything builds on the past, all of these things are based on integrated chips and transistors and on and on.

But some technologies are actually revolutionary (like the ones just listed) and others are not (Kinect.) This is obvious by the impact or the lack of impact that they have.

You are not fun to talk to because you are missing very obvious things, and I think you're doing it deliberately, so I'm done with you.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#247

Post by quanticle »

digler999 wrote: post #111
supernovae wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these kind of comments depressing mostly because they scream "group think". (my inner circle says this, so I repeat it) The new MS is much different than the MS I grew up with in the 90s. It's time for the community to recognize this and just let people bask in positive news that is worthy the bask in. I love my Surface Pro 4, I love the fact .net is cross platform, I love that Azure is fast and easy to use, I…

> I love my Surface Pro 4, I'd love one if I could put linux on it. or if I could buy an OEM pc without an OS (and yes I know there are some vendors that "allow" (just that word makes me cringe) you to do it, but it should be a right). If, by their own definition, it's "intellectual" (and not material) property, then if I dont use it I shouldn't have to pay for it. If they want to sell Surface because it's an awesome…

I could buy an OEM pc without an OS

I don't know about "without an OS", but Dell is selling a laptop right now that comes with Ubuntu Linux out of the box: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_n....

And, like others have pointed out, the Surface isn't "locked". Yes, it has SecureBoot and UEFI... just like literally every desktop motherboard shipped within the last 5 years. You can go into UEFI, turn off SecureBoot, wipe Windows and replace it with whatever you want. It may not work very well, but it's totally doable.

If they want to sell Surface because it's an awesome product, why do they need to go out of their way to lock their software on it?

Because the software is part of the product. Apple has shown us that customers do not consider hardware and software to be separate entities. They consider both to be an integrated whole.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#248

Post by shmed »

digler999 wrote: post #183
Zaheer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not their target demographic. 99% of people don't want to put linux on it.

back in the 90's, 99% of people didn't want linux either, and MS did just fine without "physically" locking you out of their competition.

Microsoft did not sell computers in the 90s...

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#249

Post by MiddleEndian »

freehunter wrote: post #239
MiddleEndian wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you saw Tomb Raider not because Square Enix paid to be on the lock screen, but because Microsoft was trying to push that you can get AAA games in the Windows Store I would still consider this to be an ad.

Not any more than "upgrade to Windows 7 Pro to access these features" that they've had for years.

I'd consider that an unacceptable ad as well, but I've never had 7 Home.

Re: Microsoft, Rebooted, Emerges as a Tech Leader

#250

Post by digler999 »

freehunter wrote: post #243
eropple wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But...you can do that. Right now. The Surface Pro 4 has no "bootloader tricks"; it has Secure Boot, which you can disable from the UEFI menu. No x86 Surface ever has ever had any "physical" methods of "locking you out of their competition". So either you want something that already exists or you want something new, and I'm very confused as to your initial post.

Just goes to show how damaging FUD actually is. Someone made up this fear and people still believe it even when the proof is literally everywhere. They just don't want to look, repeating a lie is easier.

It's more nuanced than just FUD. I admit I may have been wrong and that the surface 4 might work on linux. but its disingenuous to call my position FUD.

at least according to this [1] article, MS requires secure boot in win 10. and the criticisms about UEFI and how it makes linux much more difficult to install (which I have experienced firsthand) are documented on wikipedia [2]. I'm going to enjoy my friday evening and not try to make a solid case, but of course microsoft denies that they ever intended to use UEFI to block competition (because they've never done that before :) ).

[1] https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/201722-linuxs-worst-case...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_In...

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