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Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

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Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#591
post #14

Lots of down votes because of uncomfortable truth? I've seen this happen a few times and the only thing you need to do is honestly apply feminist values to all people without discriminating to start condemning it. It's like asking for respect for getting addicted to pills by pharmaceutical industries because that's a part of American culture. Maybe some criticism would be in place despite the "it's our culture" thing…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13192726 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#592
post #428
post #148

I think commenters who are reacting negatively to this story are reacting to the vocabulary rather than the story. Obviously I'm not a witness, but I tend to believe that these events took place more or less as the author describes them. At the same time, words like "sexism" and phrases like "as a minority..." are a big turn-off to some readers, myself included. This isn't because I don't believe in racism/sexism/xen…

The vocabulary is absolutely flawed. These are very bold claims which need to be backed up with facts. For instance, the behavior is clearly spelled out here: One day, one of my supervisors jumped to my defense at a team event, in an awkward display of sexism. OP explains how she felt and tells us exactly what action caused her to feel that way. However: The group started insinuating... They also made remarks implyin…

I was thinking the same.

I'm a man an being recently made more aware of how some females friend perceive some so called "un-harmful cheesy jokes" I often advocate to my boss or college that they shouldn't make such jokes because you can never now how they are perceived.

However to escalate the problem up to the HR you need at least some ground. At some point she said than HR asked here to explain what she found was offensive. And she suggest that asking what was offensive was itself offensive. This is pretty meta.

I don't see how HR acted badly they needed to known exactly what happened in order to act. I mean you cannot pretend to be a whistleblower but kept being shy or vague about words used. And you can't say it was edited by the press, it's a blog.

So if OP is here please be clear did the manager say something like: "Guys please don't be to hard on my sweet little girl, you know she can't handle it"

And then colleges could have gone "Hey here come the boss's bitch!"

This I can understand, not vague and redacted sentences. Because unless you are precise (and sometimes graphic) sincere skeptical people will always wonder if it was your colleagues attitude or you perception that was flawed.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#593
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real benefits will be things like a decent contract with e.g. proper treatment of overtime, sensible safety policies and so on. Which you absolutely get to free-ride on.

There is no reason Boeing can't offer a non-decent contract without overtime or safety to non-union workers. This is like saying Joe 401k is free-riding on Goldman Sachs because Goldman tries to find the right price while Joe 401k just takes whatever price is available.

There are economists who seriously criticise the rise of index funds on exactly those grounds.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grown women will also refer each other girls. I've heard a similar argument before, in reference to race. The logic is equally weak when crusty old white bigots use it.

"The logic is equally weak when crusty old white bigots use it." This comment is racist and bigoted.

No boy - you are

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#595
post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you sure that I'm a guy? Or even white? Yes. Yes. Next question, boy?

Since you have a history of breaking the HN guidelines and are continuing to do so despite our requests to stop, we've banned this account.

Sure - ban me for using the male equivalent of girl. Says way more about you than it does about me. You should reflect on your willingness to promote polite but bigoted assholes.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illegal contract clauses tend to be non-enforceable. So you can sign and then ignore.

But the outcome of that depends largely on who's got the position they want. If a contract has an illegal non-compete, it's easy for an employee to sign and then ignore it. After all, the employer would have to find the violation, sue them, and risk summary dismissal. The employee wins just by having everyone give up. If a contract features unpaid overtime, though, the employee is working time and not getting paid. T…

> They can refuse the work, get fired, and then sue...

The parent was talking about Germany in particular.

Employee protection is fairly strong, so an employer will think twice before firing someone over non-compliance with an illegal contract, as they will get their ass handed to them in court.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#597
post #459
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> women that get offended by it because they aren't male. There are a few people who get upset over it or intentionally make a vocial issue out of something that isn't. ("Guys" is generally a genderless term ["You guys, take a look at this!"]

Would you be comfortable saying that to a group of females in a professional environment?

I would be comfortable using, "guys" for females. I do it all the time. And I'm also female.

However, I would not say that some people get offended by everything or that they are looking for things to get offended by - not in a professional environment at least. Though I believe it to be reality, I think saying this bit would cause more problems than the word, "guys".

I'd also avoid the term, "guys and gals", but that's mostly because I dislike it, but that's just personal preference.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, to me it's more of a generational problem than a gender one, I'm just advocating keeping a safe distance from one of the most lethal weapons until society regains some sense of sanity.

I think you an adrienne need to have a talk

What makes you think i want to talk to someone who has gross opinions about women? Fuck that. Got better things to do.

(It's pretty clear you're implying that i'm a man-hater or some similar sexist bullshit. I have no idea what your problem is with me, but whatever.)

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#599

HR works for the company. When you consider your moves keep in mind HR works for the company. You are not paying HR salaries. Get outside legal help and advice.

This is a major point of the article: that this shouldn't be the case.

You can disagree but just pointing out that this not the current situation is either missing the point of the article or begging the question.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#600
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like she was rather obviously being white knighted, in a situation where it was clear to her and her coworkers that it was inappropriate. Which then started the problem that her coworkers saw her as favored. (My reading)

Bingo ! :-)

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