Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC • Hacker News Board

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#201

Post by ioquatix » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

erik wrote: post #80

mwc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand, our broadband market is structurally separated. The the access provider for both the copper and fibre network (right to the customer premises) is a regulated wholesale only provider, which is required to provide open access to its network on a non-discriminatory basis between all access seekers (retail telecommunications companies).[0] This almost entirely resolves the net neutrality debate in New Zea…

How well do you feel that this has worked? I was under the impression that telecom prices in New Zealand were pretty painfully expensive?

I have 1000/500 UFB to my house for ~$100USD/month. Unlimited data :)

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#202

Post by tunap » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:15 AM UTC

creeble wrote: post #154

foodstances wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bad analogy. I'm in support of net neutrality but your analogy just made me want to support different pricing for water. Water is a finite, possibly scarce resource, and there are shortages in places in the US. If I lived in one of those places, I would sure as hell want some asshole filling his pool during a shortage to pay more than the rest of us pay for basic drinking water. Similarly, I would wa…

Perhaps electricity might be a better analogy?

The electrical analogy is more closely comparable, but I've found water is a simpler concept for most to comprehend.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#203

Post by tunap » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:34 AM UTC

qq66 wrote: post #184

tunap wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a water company analogy. If you use the water for irrigation, you pay $X. If you use it for showering or dishes you pay $Y. If it's for drinking or cooking you pay $Z. Different applications for the same commodity that makes no difference to the provider outside of volume, which you already pay per unit. Should you pay more per unit if you water your lawn, if you have a pool? This is what the data providers are…

I think you should pay more per unit for a pool or massive outdoor fountain than for drinking and showering. And the water company does, too -- many water companies charge very little for the first X gallons (for basic needs) and then charge a higher price for usage over that.

It's not a line-item comparison, it's an explanation of how I pay an agreed upon price to use their resource and delivery system. And what my bits represent does not deserve a premium as long as I pay the agreed upon price per volume, IMO.

The ISPs already offer and charge accordingly for home, business and commercial accounts(all pay more for more volume & speed).

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#204

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:31 AM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #139

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a lot of concerns when Mr Wheeler took over and he greatly surprised everyone. Let's be patient and see what happens next.

I was pretty negative when he was nominated and very pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong about my initial concerns. I have a lot of respect for the man now, in fact.

If he ran for president in 4 years he would have my vote. So few politicians realize that they are supposed to be working for the people, not the mega corps.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#205

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

johansch wrote: post #137

schmatz wrote: post #90

I had a chance to meet Tom Wheeler to discuss net neutrality in the summer of 2014. It was coming off of a bad press cycle for him (John Oliver calling him a dingo), so I didn't know what to expect. He was extremely reasonable and very receptive to the needs of the tech community and small businesses. I came away from the meeting pleasantly surprised and have been happy with his actions during his tenure. Sad to see…

That may have been the exact moment that John Oliver jumped the shark.

John Oliver was hardly alone in their skepticism that a former lobbyist would make for a good FCC chairman, but I think everybody can agree that he has been a pleasant surprise.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#206

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

794CD01 wrote: post #140

byuu wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most useful analogy I've seen is the "ala carte internet" one. "Get Facebook, Twitter, and Google for just $9.99/mo!" "Add on the video package and get Netflix and Hulu for only $24.99/mo more!" "News junkie? Get BBC, NY Times, CNN for $7.99/mo." The reality is of course much more nuanced than that (what's more likely is we'll see these sites being offered bandwidth cap exemptions and faster loading; not outright…

For the average person paying 60 bucks a month for internet today while only using Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, and Netflix, this sounds like a great deal.

Those fees are on top of the $60/month for internet. Regular internet of course being limited to 512kbps and 1GB/month ($25 per each additional gigabyte).

It's coming too, because it is a great deal for ISPs (more money! Huge kickbacks for the senior management!), and a great deal for megacorp incumbent media companies who don't have to worry about any of those pesky upstarts screwing up their monopolistic business models. No more Netflix like services appearing and eating your lunch, you can effectively cut them off at the ISP.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#207

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

794CD01 wrote: post #178

byuu wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, there are plenty of people who would be happy with basically Facebook and Gmail alone. And the cable companies will be more than happy to extract $40-$60 a month from granny that uses maybe 1GB of bandwidth from those two sites at best. This puts say, Hacker News, in a very bad position. As well as any new startup that wants to compete against the major players with billions of dollars. Already there are peopl…

PSA: if you realize that reality "puts you in a bad position", take that as a hint to reconsider your position.

Yeah, you should just roll over and die so Time Warner/Comcast/Viacom/etc... bottom line isn't threatened in any way no matter how lousy and overpriced their product is. Geez, the nerve of some people.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#208

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:43 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #113

simonh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if the road company threatened to put speed bumps on the roads unless the restaurant companies paid to not have them installed, and Burger King paid but McDonalds didn't? Oh, and you already paid the road company a toll to use the road to drive to the restaurants in the first place.

That's much better. But now the reply could be: "The customer is free to choose a different road company. And the road company is free to choose its business model. The free market will decide which road company offers the best price/performance ratio in the end." (again, devil's advocate)

And because roads are expensive, there is only one. If you don't like it you just have to fly your helicopter to McDonalds instead. The market works!

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#209

Post by jandrese » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 1:43 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #113

simonh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if the road company threatened to put speed bumps on the roads unless the restaurant companies paid to not have them installed, and Burger King paid but McDonalds didn't? Oh, and you already paid the road company a toll to use the road to drive to the restaurants in the first place.

That's much better. But now the reply could be: "The customer is free to choose a different road company. And the road company is free to choose its business model. The free market will decide which road company offers the best price/performance ratio in the end." (again, devil's advocate)

And because roads are expensive, there is only one. If you don't like it you just have to fly your helicopter to McDonalds instead. The market works!

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#210

Post by bdhess » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 4:11 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #199

bdhess wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to reconcile your logic with Hamilton's from Federalist #67: The ordinary power of appointment is confined to the President and Senate JOINTLY, and can therefore only be exercised during the session of the Senate; but as it would have been improper to oblige this body to be continually in session for the appointment of officers and as vacancies might happen IN THEIR RECESS, which it might be necessary for t…

I disagree, but I applaud the high quality of your argument. it seems reasonable that if the Senate would prefer to remain permanently in session so as not to diminish its authority, it's within its right to do so Legally yes, politically no. There's no quorum so it's not possible to transact any legislative business and everyone knows this. That gap between the procedural state and reality delegitimizes the procedur…

But that gets back to my original point about cell phones and airplanes. If the modern age, if there were an item that Senate leadership deemed sufficiently important, they could call the Senate back from non-recess recess and get their quorum in a matter of days.

Edit: it's also worth noting that serving in the Senate was originally a part-time occupation; recesses of several months were common until the 1930s. That's a very different case than in 2016, where the longest break was five weeks.