Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC • Hacker News Board

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#81

Post by djsumdog » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:09 AM UTC

byuu wrote: post #73

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

The most useful analogy I've seen is the "ala carte internet" one. "Get Facebook, Twitter, and Google for just $9.99/mo!" "Add on the video package and get Netflix and Hulu for only $24.99/mo more!" "News junkie? Get BBC, NY Times, CNN for $7.99/mo." The reality is of course much more nuanced than that (what's more likely is we'll see these sites being offered bandwidth cap exemptions and faster loading; not outright…

Optus in Australia offers "free social" including Facebook and Twitter. For most normal people, network neutrality takes that away (that's how the big players will spin it).

Keep in mind, Wikipedia benefits from non-neutral networks in some developing countries where Wikipedia doesn't count towards the bandwidth cap.

It's a pretty complicated world.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#82

Post by bmelton » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:19 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #77

koolba wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look it up. It was invented by Democrats, specifically Harry Reid I think. Live by the sword, die by the sword ...

I did - here's a decent summary: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12... I agree that the Democrats made their bed on that one, but they were at least holding hearings for most of Bush's senior nominees rather than trying to obstruct all his appointments. The refusal to even hear a supreme Court nominee this year shocked me. It would be understandable if Scalia had died close to the election b…

Not that I intend the conversation to devolved into "but the Democrats did..." and vice versa, but the only thing unique for Garland is the delay at that exact position.

Priscilla Owen was denied a vote for an entire presidential term[1].

[1] - http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261878/democrats-blocked-b...

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#83

Post by Frondo » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:26 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #45

anigbrowl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That trick of procedurally gavelling open a session and immediately closing it to avoid the recess disgusts me beyond words. The GOP basically opted to treat the Constitution as a dead letter through tricks such as these and refusing to even dignify Garland's nomination with a hearing. Besides the political ramifications I think it's sad that a guy who's widely regarded as a decent hardworking jurist will have his le…

Look it up. It was invented by Democrats, specifically Harry Reid I think. Live by the sword, die by the sword ...

Frankly speaking, who cares? Is that a good reason to govern badly, because someone else did so?

We should expect better from everyone, not just shrug and say "well, they started it."

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#84

Post by tylerhou » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:33 AM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #54

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

"If you want the Internet to continue working exactly as it has since it was created, a fair and level playing field for both Google and Grandma, then you're in favor of Net Neutrality. If instead you want the telecom natural monopolies to take more control of the Internet and change how it works to bias whoever can pay them more, then you're against Net Neutrality."

I'm not sure if I like this explanation because it seems to create an "us" versus "them" mentality without much nuance.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#85

Post by crazy1van » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

rudyfink wrote: post #63

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

If all roads were owned by companies, should it be OK for UPS to charge FedEx or ambulances more to drive on its roads? This is imperfect, obviously, but I think it gets close to the core issues fairly concisely. Frankly, I, as a citizen, think you should be allowed to sell the pipe, what goes over the pipe, or what the consumer connects to the pipe, but only one of the three. I like that this has reasonably clear di…

> If all roads were owned by companies, should it be OK for UPS to charge FedEx or ambulances more to drive on its roads?

This seems like a good argument against NN. It makes me think that some traffic is much higher priority and should get special privileges.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#86

Post by kriro » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 7:51 AM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #54

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

"If you want the Internet to continue working exactly as it has since it was created, a fair and level playing field for both Google and Grandma, then you're in favor of Net Neutrality. If instead you want the telecom natural monopolies to take more control of the Internet and change how it works to bias whoever can pay them more, then you're against Net Neutrality."

I like "Google and Grandma" and will use that in the future, thanks :)

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#87

Post by hamandcheese » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 8:13 AM UTC

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

"Imagine if there was a different speed limit depending on if you were driving to McDonalds or to Burger King"

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#88

Post by akiselev » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 8:14 AM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #82

anigbrowl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did - here's a decent summary: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12... I agree that the Democrats made their bed on that one, but they were at least holding hearings for most of Bush's senior nominees rather than trying to obstruct all his appointments. The refusal to even hear a supreme Court nominee this year shocked me. It would be understandable if Scalia had died close to the election b…

Not that I intend the conversation to devolved into "but the Democrats did..." and vice versa, but the only thing unique for Garland is the delay at that exact position. Priscilla Owen was denied a vote for an entire presidential term[1]. [1] - http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261878/democrats-blocked-b...

No, Garland's situation is unique because no one has pulled this nonsense with the Supreme Court, regardless of how close to the election it was. Tit for tat politicking is usually reserved for the lower courts and Democrats were far more accomodating to Bush's nominations for the Supreme Court.

Priscilla Owen was retribution because the Republican senate refused to fill Garwood's seat during Clinton's second term (obstruction that lasted just as long as Owens, 97-01) and she was viewed as too conservative (contrary to what the the Frontpage Mag article says). They're not even in the same ballpark.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#89

Post by akiselev » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 8:20 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67

koolba wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look it up. It was invented by Democrats, specifically Harry Reid I think. Live by the sword, die by the sword ...

Yep, and I expect the democrats to give Trump the hell that the republicans have given Obama, especially if they get back congress in 2018. There is no room for niceties anymore.

Thankfully, the Republicans have been laying out the battle plans of obstruction for two decades. Already there are a bunch of state Attorney Generals frothing at the mouth to sue the Trump administration to stop everything from nominees due to conflict of interest to blocking deregulation and neutering Department secretaries, the same tactics used by Republicans to obstruct all manners of policy.

It's four more years of the same just with slightly different players and the Democrats already know what to do.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#90

Post by schmatz » Fri, Dec 16, 2016, 8:35 AM UTC

I had a chance to meet Tom Wheeler to discuss net neutrality in the summer of 2014. It was coming off of a bad press cycle for him (John Oliver calling him a dingo), so I didn't know what to expect.

He was extremely reasonable and very receptive to the needs of the tech community and small businesses. I came away from the meeting pleasantly surprised and have been happy with his actions during his tenure. Sad to see him go.