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Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

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Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#131

Post by mikey_p »

witty_username wrote: post #71
rudyfink wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all roads were owned by companies, should it be OK for UPS to charge FedEx or ambulances more to drive on its roads? This is imperfect, obviously, but I think it gets close to the core issues fairly concisely. Frankly, I, as a citizen, think you should be allowed to sell the pipe, what goes over the pipe, or what the consumer connects to the pipe, but only one of the three. I like that this has reasonably clear di…

Yes, UPS should because different vehicles cause different amounts of wear to the roads and take up different amounts of space.

There's a difference between treating all cars the same and all trucks the same vs. treating trucks operated by a specific company differently. Imagine if the fee to cross the bay bridge was different based on what company you worked for? Or imagine that the fee to cross the bridge depended which neighborhood in SF you were driving to?

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#132

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

croon wrote: post #127
kalleboo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net Neutrality legislation to me is definitely attacking the symptoms, not the problems. In my experience, in places where there is competition, net neutrality is not something you need to worry about. Private doesn't even have to be a problem if competition is maintained. In Sweden there's a mix of public, privatized-minority-government-owned, co-op and private providers and competition is quite healthy.

Only on the wired side, wireless carriers in Sweden are moving closer to US standard than their neighboring countries. Finland having unlimited cap options, and Norway and Denmark at least twice the cap per price compared to Sweden. Telia just got served for going against net neutrality principles on exempting some services from their caps. But that's because Sweden has open carrier fiber network, while the wireless…

But couldn't a lot of that be addressed by requiring a certain number of different spectrum owners?

Im not against regulation -- competition is what brings out the best in us, but games are only interesting if the rules are reasonable.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#133

Post by kiallmacinnes »

gallerdude wrote: post #40
bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

"Imagine if your electricity company could decide that you pay more for some appliances than others."

This actually happens in Ireland for electric "Storage Heaters", which charge up overnight when electricity is cheap and plentiful, but it's not charged at the usual night rate...

(This may actually no longer be a thing, storage heaters aren't used all that often anymore..)

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#134

Post by bluetwo »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #54
bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

"If you want the Internet to continue working exactly as it has since it was created, a fair and level playing field for both Google and Grandma, then you're in favor of Net Neutrality. If instead you want the telecom natural monopolies to take more control of the Internet and change how it works to bias whoever can pay them more, then you're against Net Neutrality."

I was watching an industry spokesperson explain (falsely) that net neutrality forces some companies to fall under one set of regulations, and others to fall under a different set. Getting rid of net neutrality meant that all companies would play by the same rules.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#135

Post by croon »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #132
croon wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on the wired side, wireless carriers in Sweden are moving closer to US standard than their neighboring countries. Finland having unlimited cap options, and Norway and Denmark at least twice the cap per price compared to Sweden. Telia just got served for going against net neutrality principles on exempting some services from their caps. But that's because Sweden has open carrier fiber network, while the wireless…

But couldn't a lot of that be addressed by requiring a certain number of different spectrum owners? Im not against regulation -- competition is what brings out the best in us, but games are only interesting if the rules are reasonable.

> but games are only interesting if the rules are reasonable

I completely agree with this.

> But couldn't a lot of that be addressed by requiring a certain number of different spectrum owners?

I suppose it could, but is that not the case in the US? I believe it only works if you can expect that cartels won't exist, which unfortunately is not a safe assumption. It's also an expensive barrier to entry for new actors.

Community owned last-mile utility is what has worked on electricity, phones, and forementioned fiber in Sweden. Anything else has proven to somehow fail to be competative. I feel comfortable in drawing an assumption off that. I wish more people agreed or that I was proven wrong.

Likewise games stop being fun if the rules can't enforce a reasonable playing ground.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#136

Post by simonh »

bb611 wrote: post #115
amelius wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's much better. But now the reply could be: "The customer is free to choose a different road company. And the road company is free to choose its business model. The free market will decide which road company offers the best price/performance ratio in the end." (again, devil's advocate)

But in the US the average consumer doesn't have a meaningful choice between road companies: http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/09/most-of-the-us-has-n...

This is the heart of it. Free market economics is a wonderful thing and as a civilization we have reaped enormous rewards from it, I'm a true believer, but if your market produces natural monopolies that are highly stable then that's not really a market anymore and it's certainly not free or fair.

Adam Smith, the father of free market economics, was very clear about this. Markets must be well regulated in order to remain free and fair.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#137

Post by johansch »

schmatz wrote: post #90

I had a chance to meet Tom Wheeler to discuss net neutrality in the summer of 2014. It was coming off of a bad press cycle for him (John Oliver calling him a dingo), so I didn't know what to expect. He was extremely reasonable and very receptive to the needs of the tech community and small businesses. I came away from the meeting pleasantly surprised and have been happy with his actions during his tenure. Sad to see…

That may have been the exact moment that John Oliver jumped the shark.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#138

Post by shawnfratis2 »

What I'm curious to know, is how will any of this truly affect users who aren't necessarily streaming/torrenting/big bandwidth users, like those who focus on education, research, computer sciences, among others. Not meaning to sound too vague, but speaking for myself, most of the Internet-related things I depend on don't necessarily involve constant high-bandwidth usage (like online gaming, for example). If the internet gets completely throttled I want to know what I have to look forward to.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#139

Post by wavefunction »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #106
quasse wrote: post #32

I was recently at a conference in DC called "Transforming Communities: Broadband Goals for 2017 and Beyond" which was largely focused on public policy related to the lack of real broadband in America. Gigi Sohn, who is the counselor to the chairman of the FCC, spoke. She was very candid about the position of the FCC and the fact that she was finally able to speak her mind because this was going to be one of her last…

There were a lot of concerns when Mr Wheeler took over and he greatly surprised everyone. Let's be patient and see what happens next.

I was pretty negative when he was nominated and very pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong about my initial concerns.

I have a lot of respect for the man now, in fact.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#140

Post by 794CD01 »

byuu wrote: post #73
bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

The most useful analogy I've seen is the "ala carte internet" one. "Get Facebook, Twitter, and Google for just $9.99/mo!" "Add on the video package and get Netflix and Hulu for only $24.99/mo more!" "News junkie? Get BBC, NY Times, CNN for $7.99/mo." The reality is of course much more nuanced than that (what's more likely is we'll see these sites being offered bandwidth cap exemptions and faster loading; not outright…

For the average person paying 60 bucks a month for internet today while only using Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, and Netflix, this sounds like a great deal.
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