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Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

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461–470 of 692 posts

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#461

Very well put. I find it very annoying when people declare something to be racist. Racism is the idea that some races are superior or inferior. Unless you literally declare that some races are superior or inferior, what you say is not racist. I do agree that some things might imply that you think some races are inferior, but by declaring something racist, you state that the author has that specific idea and is trying…

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Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#462
post #430
post #159

There is a mental trap I have personally fallen into I will dub the "Friendliness Trap" where you start to incorrectly think of someone you work closely with as your close friend due to the forced proximity and "friendly" interaction. This can foster inappropriate workplace behavior your brain justifies as OK. For instance friendly teasing, sometimes even started by the person themselves (e.g. "Oh, you know us [blank…

I'd add : why do you need to tease in the first place ? There's no reason to do that.

I will never, ever defend anything like that in the workplace, but some people consider teasing and joking to relationship building.

There's no reason for a lot of human interactions that are ultimately good for a subgroup's social bonds.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#463
post #148

I think commenters who are reacting negatively to this story are reacting to the vocabulary rather than the story. Obviously I'm not a witness, but I tend to believe that these events took place more or less as the author describes them. At the same time, words like "sexism" and phrases like "as a minority..." are a big turn-off to some readers, myself included. This isn't because I don't believe in racism/sexism/xen…

This is true with a lot of things that people have strong feelings and beliefs associated with, and -isms are good examples of it.

For plenty of people, the moment they see 'sexism', 'racism', etc it's over. They are either rooting for you, or mentally preparing arguments against your case, and things you say/write becomes largely irrelevant.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#464
post #114
post #76

There's a curious lack of detail in this story. No direct quotes, or even reasonable level of detail to the accusations. For example: "One day, one of my supervisors jumped to my defense at a team event, in an awkward display of sexism." I'm sure there's a way that a supervisor jumping to your defense could be sexist, but this isn't showing that, at all. "At a lunch with several other coworkers, one of these men orde…

>There's a curious lack of detail in this story. It's not curious at all. She's being careful not to identify specific individuals.

That's one possible explanation, but the fact that she identifies people (roles) suggests not.

Feeling she was discriminated against but not knowing why and therefore speculating would be another possible explanation, I'm sure there are others.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you were trying to say in your original comment was that "positive" sexism doesn't exist. That the author was being unreasonable when she interpreted her co-worker standing up for her as sexism. I will assert that such "positive" acts can be and often are sexist. Negative actions can also be sexist. It is possible to take a sexist action while you think you're being helpful. Not all sexism is manifested…

I wasn't trying to say this at all. What I was saying is simply that X and !X cannot both be evidence of a hypothesis. If X increases your confidence that Y is true, then !X must reduce your confidence. If you want to make a more complicated argument as to why these things aren't actually X and !X, do it. But RodericDay wasn't doing that.

There is something called benevolent sexism ...

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#467
post #316

I was sympathetic to her plight up until the 'personal impact' part. It seems to me that the author is using hyperbole when describing her physical/emotional impact on herself and her family to gain some form of sympathy from her audience. With statements like this: >This strife has shattered all of our lives like nothing else before. Based on this statement it seems to me the author and her family have yet to face a…

The reason why our society has such a poor understanding of mental health is because we demand a "real travesty" as a cause of mental illness. Unless there is one, the default assumption is that people are making it up. This is a dangerous belief that harms people.

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Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#468
post #430
post #159

There is a mental trap I have personally fallen into I will dub the "Friendliness Trap" where you start to incorrectly think of someone you work closely with as your close friend due to the forced proximity and "friendly" interaction. This can foster inappropriate workplace behavior your brain justifies as OK. For instance friendly teasing, sometimes even started by the person themselves (e.g. "Oh, you know us [blank…

I'd add : why do you need to tease in the first place ? There's no reason to do that.

I'd say it depends on a lot of factors such as local culture, company culture (or team culture for larger companies), etc. So just saying 'there is no point' is probably not an answer.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#469
post #132

My brother, as a manager of a big team in Belgium, had once to face a complain to the HR about he harassing a secretary. The reaction of the company was immediate, and in my opinion the right one. They contracted a specialize company to investigate, collect the facts and present their conclusions. The conclusions would be sent at the same time to the alleged victim, the HR and the manager. In this case the conclusion…

The idea that a contractor is going to be unbiased when they're getting paid by the corporation is sort of absurd. They know where their bread is buttered, and it's not from employees filing complaints.

The contractor is working for the company. He is unbiased toward the employees.

Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective

#470
post #98

How is women dealing with harassment different than men dealing with other men who are just assholes? I've been in a number of companies where I've had to call out the behavior of a colleague with a manager because the alternative would have been knocking the guys teeth out. Nothing changes, except maybe a "talking to" by a manager or HR, and said asshole just presses against a different boundary. I have also found t…

> Many women think nothing of finding the most powerful man in the organization they can and using him as a "friend" to undermine their direct manager I feel sorry for you.

Please don't post like this here, no matter what sort of thread we're in.
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