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Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

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Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Because they won't do it. This pledge is so full of get-out clauses it makes Swiss Cheese look robust. Many of the signers already work for companies that build large databases that could be used in bad ways by governments. This is the Silicon Valley equivalent of saying "I'll move to Canada".

Then hold them to it when something happens. Personally, I think the people who have publicly signed this, putting them a Google search away from any future employer learning about this, probably thought about it more carefully than you did.

In talking to people about this pledge --- particularly people resistant to the pledge (I have conservative friends), the most notable thing I've learned is that people do this all the time. Almost everyone I've talked to knows someone who quit a job over principle, or did so themselves.

It's time for us to stop acting like this is such a weird thing to say or do, and recognize the market power we can so easily put behind basic principles we all share. Please don't tell me that thousands of people who have --- I am not being hyperbolic --- changed jobs over the quality of the free catered lunch wouldn't do so to avoid being affiliated with mass deportation or a Muslim registry.

You will need a better argument than this to dismiss the effort.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#212
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because driving on public roads has never been a right in the US. It has always been a privilege that you are granted.

That's not really accurate. Freedom of assembly is interpreted pretty generously. It's fine to disqualify on not knowing how to drive safely, but any other unrelated qualifier would be struck down as unconstitutional.

Thats a good point. If the US did a "no drive" list, there's no way it would standup in the courts. Counter point would be a "no firearm" list which runs counter to the 2nd amendment and may standup in the courts.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying isn't a constitutionally protected right. Voting is though. Should you be able to vote without registering?

Voter registration is an interesting scenario too, but there's more than what meets the surface: There are multiple rights to protect. We all have the right to vote. We also have the right that your vote is of equal weight to everyone else's vote. We must also be able to ensure that votes are anonymous, to protect people from being persecuted. Finally, we also have the right to a secure election that only allows citi…

> We also have the right that your vote is of equal weight to everyone else's vote.

That's clearly not true, when the votes of California residents are worth significantly fewer electoral votes per capita than in any other state. Until the electoral college is replaced with a straight popular vote, we will never have the right to equally-weighted votes.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#215
post #2

It's a lovely gesture, and an important sign of solidarity; however, it'a merely that, just a gesture. I hope that SV and the tech industry leverages its wealth and technical legal capabilities to fight these sorts of actions in court, unlike their responses to privacy intrusions by the federal government, British intelligence, and other foreign groups.

If you read any of the pieces discussing the late Thomas Schelling's contribution to game theory, you know that making a pledge to do X if Y occurs is a perfectly sound strategy to discourage Y from happening.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#216
post #214

Hundreds of tech worker said they would not do it, but I'm sure that they could find just as many that would do it. A database is pretty simple to build anyways...

It's over 1200 now. But could you find 1200 tech workers to take the other side? Yes, I think you could. 1200 is a tiny number relative to the number of engineers who agree with the pledge, and just haven't seen it yet.

I think you're crazy if you think the profession as a whole is anything close to 50/50 on these issues. The American people aren't close to 50/50 on them: they oppose both mass deportation and Muslim registries by wide margins. The numbers get even starker when you restrict them to people with the educational backgrounds of Silicon Valley engineers.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#217

This database essentially already exists as part of Facebook and another companies producing social graph data, and in the nodes and interstices of networked communications.

The authors of the pledge understand that, which is why it's written the way it is.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#218

For everyone dismissing this as "too late" and "this data already exists" should consider that this appears to be addressed in the pledge. > to scale back existing datasets with unnecessary racial, ethnic, and national origin data. > Responsibly destroy high-risk data sets and backups

Good luck getting Facebook or the US Census to do that. This is a useless gesture that means very little. I guess some people get to feel better about themselves. The first step would be some reforms in consumer protection laws dealing with privacy and information sharing. Just watch how much certain SV firms spend to opposed those changes.

Weak argument. Do better. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13189009

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#219
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Perhaps because no matter how prominent you or the company you work for is, there are 1000s of other IT workers who are less scrupulous, less conscious, and more motivated by money than you are. And they would do it. That being said, who is to say that it would be those people who were asked to do it? Most unlikely. It'd be the grey people, those you don't even know about. Those already doing it. And finally, it's al…

It takes a long time to train up a new employee to effectiveness in a company like Google or Facebook, even if the hiring pool is limitless (which I dispute).

Employees acting in concert at those companies are a powerful point of leverage.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#220

For everyone dismissing this as "too late" and "this data already exists" should consider that this appears to be addressed in the pledge. > to scale back existing datasets with unnecessary racial, ethnic, and national origin data. > Responsibly destroy high-risk data sets and backups

Good luck getting Facebook or the US Census to do that. This is a useless gesture that means very little. I guess some people get to feel better about themselves. The first step would be some reforms in consumer protection laws dealing with privacy and information sharing. Just watch how much certain SV firms spend to opposed those changes.

The US census has robust protections against storing or disseminating personally identifying information. They do it right.

Facebook has hundreds of employees mortified by what their management is walking into (the Trump tower, among other things). They have a lot of influence if they choose to use it.

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