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Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

latimes.com

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Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#131

Post by civilian »

vegabook wrote: post #56

Can we build a database of the programmers idiotic enough to believe such a pledge will actually make an iota of difference? A thicko / navel-gazingly hubristic persons database. Gees laudable goal but even contemplating that such a goal might be attainable, is a total eye-roller.

HopelessIdealistsDB :3

I almost joined a startup with four hopeless idealists. And then I realized that they weren't really interested in making money (so that we can all retire early and send our kids to nice schools), they were chasing a windmill. It would've been great for all us to not waste our time interviewing & vetting each other.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#132

Post by kevinburke »

probably_wrong wrote: post #24

Of course they won't. Any tech worker worth hiring would write a general people database, and define 'muslim' as a query parameter. (With apologies to Nathaniel Borenstein. Also, it's true)

Are you arguing the 1000 people who've signed the petition are not worth hiring?

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#134

Post by interstitial »

geofft wrote: post #117
interstitial wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ruining their virtue-signaling party.

The only person here I see here who's virtue-signaling is Trump, by making statements that are widely acknowledged to be just for show and not serious promises.

Another one-way function? Only people I declare "other" and bad can be guilty of virtue-signaling. Hard to keep up.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#135

Post by louprado »

All it takes is one developer to dissent and to crowd source the entire data collection effort. The contributors get a promise that they will be compensated at a future date when the government agrees to buy the database. This would be an easy App to write and with good ML you can scrub out bad data and identify malicious contributors.

It took me 30 seconds to come up with that idea and until this very moment, I always thought of crowd-sourcing as a beautiful part of modern society. By mid-2017 I'll likely be a full-blown nihilist.

edit: ++sadness

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#136

Post by exabrial »

woofyman wrote: post #90
exabrial wrote: post #21

Unfortunately, with firearms registration and no-fly lists, Muslim registries are part of the slope we've set precedent for. A citizen should _never_ have to register with the government to exercise a freedom explicitly granted in the constitution.

Flying isn't a constitutionally protected right. Voting is though. Should you be able to vote without registering?

Flying is an interesting case, per the 5th amendment we have the freedom to travel (liberty). There are too many points to consider for an HN thread, but in general, I would propose flying as a reasonably protected right, but no-fly lists as a violation of that right because of the absolute lack of due process. There is plenty of room for reasonable and effective security measures, as long as they don't intimidate, discriminate, inconvenience, or harass citizens.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#137

Post by nilved »

coldtea wrote: post #36
1ris wrote: post #8

It's a ridiculous and naive view of the world. Of course it already exists. For example on facebook. For example in the mosques. Everybody was warned, everybody could have seen this coming. But most people didn't give a fuck. Welcome is post privacy. I didn't need have to be that way. We can still turn this into post-post-privacy. But only if we face what we have already done.

> Everybody was warned, everybody could have seen this coming. There has been nothing coming. Trumps pre-election stuff was BS, nothing will be done. Check back in 4 years. Besides government agencies obviously already have detailed profiles of such things, going far beyond the religion of a subject.

If you didn't see this coming you only have yourself to blame.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#138

Post by esrauch »

drakonandor wrote: post #45
r3bl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be honest, the title is highly misleading. Sure, they pledged to refuse to participate in the creation of such database, but that's just one of the things stated in the full pledge. I would emphasize more on the following parts of the pledge: * to scale back existing datasets with unnecessary racial, ethnic, and national origin data. * to implement security and privacy best practices, in particular, for end-…

> * to scale back existing datasets with unnecessary racial, ethnic, and national origin data. We already have this, as the foreigners Trump is referring to have to get US Travel Visas. Obviously we know their country of origin. Anyone paying attention at all knows Trump's current plan is keeping a close eye on all visitors and immigrants (allowed in) from countries with large anti-western terrorism contributions - w…

That's his current plan, but some of his previous positions were a bit more draconian / extreme. I think the pledge implies level of drawing a clear line in the sand before it it ever comes to it.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#139

Post by portlander12345 »

lucaspiller wrote: post #55
exabrial wrote: post #21

Unfortunately, with firearms registration and no-fly lists, Muslim registries are part of the slope we've set precedent for. A citizen should _never_ have to register with the government to exercise a freedom explicitly granted in the constitution.

It's an interesting argument. How could that work for things like driving, where you need to prove competency before you are legally allowed to do something?

The case law on this is interesting. When driver licensing was challenged in the early 20th century, the courts ruled that motorcars are so dangerous to the public that the state would be justified in banning them entirely; and that therefore, it may restrict their use in any way.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#140

Post by briholt »

edblarney wrote: post #48

What about a database of people from countries with high propensity for radicalization, for example Tunisia, or Somalia? Paradox: Tunisia is perhaps the most progressive of all the M/E Muslim countries, and yet they are the #1 M/E country in terms of Jihadis. They are overwhelmingly the greatest per/capita Jihadi producers in the world. By far. Tunisia is very small. Networks are very small. 95% chance that a young m…

You're making the mistake of trying to ground the discussion in reality. This has nothing to do with any actual real world outcomes. The point is that if I pretend that there could be a Muslim database, I can feel self-righteous in opposing it.
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