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Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

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Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#441

Post by temp20160423 »

chrisper wrote: post #376
jartelt wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. If people want to gripe about high rent/COL or lack of public transit that is fine and legitimate. But complaining about lack of things to do just doesn't add up. You can go hiking in Marin or in the open space preserves on the peninsula. You can drink great beer at several breweries or go to Napa/Sonoma to wine taste. You can go skiing in Tahoe. You can go to Yosemite or Sequoia. You can ride your b…

But all the places you mentioned are at least 1.5 hours drive from San Jose. You can't expect me to drive 1.5 hours just to not have to sit at home every time I want to have some fun? I love day trips, but I don't want to have to to a day trip every weekend or every day I want to have some fun. Compare that to LA or San Diego where you don't have to drive far to have fun (nightlife for example) or awesome beaches. Al…

Sounds like you're simply living in the wrong place. Within 30 minutes, I can drive from SJ to a number of great hiking trails or take my road bike to some super fun hills. Of course the streets are empty after 9pm... people want to be able to get outside when the sun is up!

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#442

Post by reality_czech »

chrisper wrote: post #176
skylark wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience doesn't line up with your preconceived notions of the Bay Area at all. I've worked at three different jobs in San Francisco, and all of them were standard 9-5 jobs. I've worked weekends under 5 times. Most of my friends are in the same situation. Sure if you want to work at an early stage startup, you can grind yourself into a paste. But there are plenty of jobs here where that's not the case.

Maybe it is because I live in the South Bay. But here it seems that everyone is just going to work and back home.. and that's it. There is nothing else going on here, but work work work.

You need to broaden your horizons. There are tons of things to do in the South Bay.

* Rock climbing * Scuba diving in Monterey * Bicycling on the bay trail * Board gaming clubs * Meetups * Wineries * The boardwalk in Santa Cruz

You can even take an hour train ride straight to SF and spend the day with the snobs and homeless. And then take the same train home to a place that doesn't stink like urine.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#443

Post by reality_czech »

automatwon wrote: post #361
pmoriarty wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I considered moving to Portland, until I read about how a big earthquake would pretty much completely wipe it out: http://www.oregonlive.com/earthquakes/index.ssf/2015/07/the_...

Might as well live in Washington at that point. No state income tax, while there is Oregon state income tax. Then again, Washington has sales tax, whereas Oregon does not. I used to live in Portland, and some peopled lived / worked in Vancouver, Washington, and drove to Portland to do all their shopping, groceries included.

It's really cold and wet all the time. Non-compete agreements are valid so prepare to be screwed over if you change jobs. You don't have the California code on your side if you want to do a side project-- it will be owned by your employer. Amazon will work you like a rented mule and that bald guy in charge is creepy as fuck. Traffic in Seattle is worse than the Bay Area (yes really). They can't expand I-95 because they made the decision to tunnel it through a building (long story)

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#444

Post by temp20160423 »

ryandrake wrote: post #404
morgante wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's salary alone, not total comp.

Your post only mentioned salary. EDIT: And to add more to the conversation than that curt response: When I compare take-home pay among various jobs I tend to ignore bonuses (because they're subject to your employer's whim--you don't necessarily get them) and I tend to ignore equity (because it's typically temporary--once you vest it no longer adds to your yearly take-home). To compare apples with apples you can only…

That is nuts to only compare base salary. At the big 4, base salary will be <60% of total comp. It's possible that Goog will hit really tough times and no longer pay the annual bonuses and it's possible they don't offer equity refreshes. But it's much more likely that Goog's business will hold steady (or grow) and the company will want to continue attracting candidates. It's much more likely that employees get refreshes so that their pay in years 2,3 and 4 are higher than the pay they were promised at sign-on. However, it's possible for pay in the 5th year to drop if the initial grant is huge.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#445

Post by automatwon »

infinitone wrote: post #439
automatwon wrote: post #366

I wonder how much weather affects success, both for companies and individuals. I worked as a Data Science engineer in Seattle (startup), and just moved to San Francisco this year (Google). I know this sounds trivial, but I think the more pleasant weather in the Bay Area is beneficial to my career. The lifestyle aspect is just icing on the cake. I can't get up in the morning when it's rainy and cold. Of course, I do s…

Heh.. i guess no one told you about LA or San Diego then.

Oh I love SoCal. It's just that my current employer is based out of San Francisco, and there is more opportunity in the company. I definitely try to be headquartered in LA if I ever form my own startup.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#447

Post by automatwon »

reality_czech wrote: post #443
automatwon wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might as well live in Washington at that point. No state income tax, while there is Oregon state income tax. Then again, Washington has sales tax, whereas Oregon does not. I used to live in Portland, and some peopled lived / worked in Vancouver, Washington, and drove to Portland to do all their shopping, groceries included.

It's really cold and wet all the time. Non-compete agreements are valid so prepare to be screwed over if you change jobs. You don't have the California code on your side if you want to do a side project-- it will be owned by your employer. Amazon will work you like a rented mule and that bald guy in charge is creepy as fuck. Traffic in Seattle is worse than the Bay Area (yes really). They can't expand I-95 because th…

I've actually worked at Amazon in the past. My experience wasn't that bad. And I'm a actually a Seattle native! For some reason, the traffic there never really bothered me.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#448

Post by xiphias »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #359
mooreds wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One time I talked to a Google recruiter, and that was the message he conveyed. "Sure, you can work at a satellite office, but if you are interested in your career, Mountain View is where you want to be."

Two caveats to that: - I promise you that's only true as far as your project's priority. For example if Google Maps in Colorado is more important to the company, at the moment, than some other project at HQ, then working on that project at HQ is not better for your career. - Remember a recruiter is a sales person. Some are honest, some will tell you what serves their own interest.

All Google VPs are in MTV, it's not a secret inside Google that it's easier to get promoted there. Still, I'm perfectly happy in working at a satellite office.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#449

Post by pixelp3 »

chrisper wrote: post #376
jartelt wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. If people want to gripe about high rent/COL or lack of public transit that is fine and legitimate. But complaining about lack of things to do just doesn't add up. You can go hiking in Marin or in the open space preserves on the peninsula. You can drink great beer at several breweries or go to Napa/Sonoma to wine taste. You can go skiing in Tahoe. You can go to Yosemite or Sequoia. You can ride your b…

But all the places you mentioned are at least 1.5 hours drive from San Jose. You can't expect me to drive 1.5 hours just to not have to sit at home every time I want to have some fun? I love day trips, but I don't want to have to to a day trip every weekend or every day I want to have some fun. Compare that to LA or San Diego where you don't have to drive far to have fun (nightlife for example) or awesome beaches. Al…

Nightlife in the south bay is rather lame.

But here's one thing I've found: People who really want to have fun find a way. There are small pockets all over the bay. SJ downtown is a little lame but it is getting better

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#450

Post by baccheion »

Divide yearly salary (before taxes) by median rent (40 = bare minimum to rent an apartment, 60 = comfortable, and 100 = luxurious living).

Once you're making enough, it's about realizing the chances you'll be able to buy a house or find a compatible (and attractive) romantic partner are low.

Before the rent situation got completely out of control, it was easy to recommend at least living in the Bay Area for a while (just to see if you like it or not, and to have experienced it), especially if just out of school, but now things are unclear.

Many (of the better) tech companies have their headquarters in the Bay Area, and it's been commonly said that working out of any other office is a poor experience.

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