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Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

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181–190 of 249 posts

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to criticize you in particular but I have a problem with "always give 5 stars". Are you telling me that your average Uber ride is 100% perfect? I find that hard to believe, moreover basic distributions would find this improbable. Sorry for ranting, I wish more people would give realistic ratings to things instead of starting with 100% perfect and decrementing for misses. It should start in the middle, 50…

I agree with you that ratings should mean something. However, Uber requires an absolute minimum score of 3.8 for drivers to stay on the platform, and a 4.6 minimum for any area that has reasonable driver supply (eg: everywhere). This means every time you rate a driver a 4 it's effectively a statement that they should be fired.

We've traded one set of problems (with taxis) with another set of problems.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would an employee/contractor be suspended for a minor traffic violation? Nobody was hurt. I'd rather they talk about taking steps to train the people and algorithms better

Did you actually see the video? The car drove through the red light long (in relative terms) after the signal turned red. That an accident didn't happen is sheer luck.

Yeah, and that's the crossing from Yerba Buena to SFMOMA. It's obviously designed to give pedestrians a lot of breathing room. Autonomous or not, blowing through that crossing was Very Bad.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a driver's average rating drops below around 4.5 they get kicked off. By design you can't give a driver less than 5 unless you want them to lose their job.

Why do you phrase this in a way that implies that is my problem? That is a mechanism Uber created because of the problem I originally called out. If we didn't have this rating problem, 4.5 threshold would probably be much closer to the 50%.

It's your problem because of the knowledge you now have. 1-3 stars are masturbatory bullcrap, the actual rating system is binary.

Similar problem many professors face in schools with grade inflation. You are not holding any system accountable by using your own sensible scale instead of the one that matters, you're just punishing the student.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#184
post #8

Uber is a company built on ignoring laws. Everything they did in the beginning was against some form of taxi or car hire regulation, in the name of disruption. (Regardless of what you think of the laws in question, they were still being broken in the eyes of most regulators) I don't know how I feel about that type of corporate philosophy (or Facebook's "move fast break things") in light of projects where people can a…

Uber exemplifies the libertarian / anarchist subculture in tech. It seems to be a winning strategy for them so far. Edit: to clarify my position. This is why software will never be regarded as an engineering profession. There is a complete disregard for everything that would make us a profession. I'm saddened with the way the world has gone in 2016. It's like we rebelled against adulthood on a global scale.

> to clarify my position. This is why software will never be regarded as an engineering profession.

who cares?

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#186
post #69
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA law says every autonomous car in testing needs to have an operator in charge, so technically all incidents are due to human error. Also: Uber is not listed in the CA DMV list of companies allowed to test autonomous vehicles? https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/testi...

unsure if the dmv requires a human operator since uber's argument for not needing dmv's permission is there is a human operator in the car, and therefore it's not a self-driving car.

Uber Marketing: "self driving car!"

Uber Legal: "assisted driving"

Pick one.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#187
post #179
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has enough money and power to be negligent and reckless unfortunately. I was a big Uber user but the way they treated me after an accident (where I was the hurt passenger) was truly terrifying. I thought the whole Uber is "evil" thing was overblown but it is not. Be very, very careful with Uber. They have a lot of resources to fight with, and most people don't have the emotional or financial resources to go to t…

Are you able to speak more about your specific experience?

I can't, I'm sorry. I could get some media around my story but I am a private person. Plus Uber would probably just discredit me and lie. I wish I didn't have to deal with them over the accident stuff because they fight really dirty.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#188
post #74
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody, until someone gets hurt. It's a valid political position to believe that people don't need government regulation (laws) to behave themselves, not make mistakes, and not take risks that might lead to mistakes. It's the libertarian/anarchist viewpoint, as mentioned. But that's not how the government in San Francisco, California, or the US works. Those of us who don't hold to the libertarian or anarchist positio…

Just to play devils advocate here. Assuming Uber gets a permit to test autonomous vehicles in public, how much risk has been mitigated as a result vs not having a permit and allowing them to continue testing? Reading the legislation, the only requirement for the permit are: - have insurance with up to $5 million - the driver has a drivers license and has "Instruction on the automated driving system technology", as we…

I'm definitely a fan of the thesis that government should be more competent, although I don't think that's where you were going with that. :) I'd love to see government regulations that demand that you should stress-test the software, hire someone competent to analyze the code, get licensed engineers to be involved in design and development-process review, etc.

The difference between your devil's-advocate worldview and my worldview is I think not in our perception of facts - we both agree that the government isn't super competent right now - but in our optimism. You (or your viewpoint) isn't optimistic that government regulation will ever get good, and would rather just stop trying, but is pretty confident that individual humans and companies are unlikely to be abusive, or to cause much damage if they are. I'm resigned to expecting that someone, somewhere, will try to get away with the bare minimum required, and in the absence of regulation will just be too stupid to realize they're risking people's lives until people die. But I do have higher expectations of government regulation, and believe that it can be good or at least we can work towards it being good.

(Also, government regulation doesn't have to involve the government doing things. Several industries have so-called "self-regulatory organizations", which mostly exist because of the implicit threat that the government could start regulating more heavily. That is, the SROs only exist because of government letting industry know who the boss is, so there's a distinct positive effect of that posture! The SROs aren't perfect, but to first order everyone is better off: the government isn't interfering with things they don't understand, yet actual, competent oversight with meaningful enforcement powers exists. Self-driving cars are too small an industry at present to meaningfully self-regulate, but it certainly sounds like they won't be very shortly.)

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#190
post #22

Uber just doesn't get the whole concept of regulations do they? I understand violating ones that are "dumb" and hurt your business (e.g. taxi medallions) or those that it's easier to just do it and figure out hte results later (e.g. insurance) but this is literally "get the permit first". They should process this nice and sloooooooooooow.

I don't know about regulations, but Uber has made traveling around my city a cheap and pleasurable experience for me, which was certainly not the case before with the so called "legal and regulated taxis", constantly offering shit service and outright scamming people. When it seems like the regulations are not helping consumers, it's only natural that the consumers will not care if a company follows them.
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