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Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

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151–160 of 249 posts

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#151
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it learned a bit too much from San Francisco drivers?

If it uses Uber drivers for training, heaven help us: I’ve seen illegal U-turns, constant double parking, reversing down 1-way streets, moving right turns through red lights, sudden stops, speeding 25+ mph over the legal limit, lane changes in intersections, lots of turning without signals, lack of proper yielding to obvious pedestrians, cyclists nearly side-swiped, etc. (Some subset of) Uber drivers are one of the w…

An Uber driver deliberately pushed me (a cyclist) out of the way with the hood of his car when I tried to take a picture of him parking on an expressway. I filed a police report and a complaint with Uber, but nothing came of it.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#152
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber exemplifies the libertarian / anarchist subculture in tech. It seems to be a winning strategy for them so far. Edit: to clarify my position. This is why software will never be regarded as an engineering profession. There is a complete disregard for everything that would make us a profession. I'm saddened with the way the world has gone in 2016. It's like we rebelled against adulthood on a global scale.

> the libertarian / anarchist subculture pls more like the greedy, callous and obnoxiously self important subculture in tech (inb4 downvotes from uber's legion of koolaid drinking fanboys & employees)

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here, and please don't call names in comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a fun fact that throughout history, (barring the morally exceptional[0]) each human only ever chose to do things that were in their best interest. However, since humans existed, we have continually seen a consistent improvement[1] in the average human's life. [0] Funny thing about the morally exceptional: I can't think of any which continue to improve our current day-to-day lives. [1] Improvement is subjecti…

Regardimg [0]: The entire open source industy. Voluntary fire brigades. And so on. I'm surprised you ignore all those so easily.

> The entire open source industy.

The open source industry is far from unbridled altruism.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#154
post #52
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 100% clear from the article that the permit applied to Uber. And the incident in question of a car running a red light was apparently being driven by a human. > "This vehicle was not part of the pilot and was not carrying customers. The driver involved has been suspended while we continue to investigate." If their self-driving tech is still driver-assisted, then shouldn't Tesla cars also be ordered to stop d…

Nobody, until someone gets hurt. It's a valid political position to believe that people don't need government regulation (laws) to behave themselves, not make mistakes, and not take risks that might lead to mistakes. It's the libertarian/anarchist viewpoint, as mentioned. But that's not how the government in San Francisco, California, or the US works. Those of us who don't hold to the libertarian or anarchist positio…

> It's the libertarian/anarchist viewpoint

That's about as coherent a statement as 'it's the progressive/communist viewpoint'

There is a huge gap between Zero Government anarchism and the belief that government authority should be limited so it does not grow to oppress.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The state should be doing all it can to support, grow, and encourage this innovation. Obviously California does a good job at this. The innovative machine that is Silicon Valley has been impossible to replicate anywhere else on Earth, nothing else even comes close.

That happens despite California, not because of California.

Can't you both be wrong?

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#156
post #15

I want self-driving cars to happen as quickly as possible, but Uber seems like they were extremely reckless and negligent here. Why not apply for a permit and stay on the safe side? And with at least two reported incidents of these cars running red lights, it seems like driver training and attentiveness was lacking. If the software wasn't ready, fine, but you have to be aware of that and train your drivers to be 100%…

Uber seems like they were extremely reckless YES. I live 10 feet away from the garage. I've noticed over the past few months that they've been ramping in typical startup fashion: hockey stick growth. After reading about Lyft's CEO, a narrative of "nice guys finishing last", I started realizing how unscrupulous Uber is. Sadly, cut-throat businesses win. I recently took an Uber ride, where the driver was an un-retired…

Given your assessment, at least take Lyft instead.

If I have a choice, I don't take Uber.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you want to give a bad rating for bad driving? I almost always give 5 stars, but with the notable exception being distracted or aggressive drivers.

I don't want to criticize you in particular but I have a problem with "always give 5 stars". Are you telling me that your average Uber ride is 100% perfect? I find that hard to believe, moreover basic distributions would find this improbable. Sorry for ranting, I wish more people would give realistic ratings to things instead of starting with 100% perfect and decrementing for misses. It should start in the middle, 50…

If a driver's average rating drops below around 4.5 they get kicked off. By design you can't give a driver less than 5 unless you want them to lose their job.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#158
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber seems like they were extremely reckless YES. I live 10 feet away from the garage. I've noticed over the past few months that they've been ramping in typical startup fashion: hockey stick growth. After reading about Lyft's CEO, a narrative of "nice guys finishing last", I started realizing how unscrupulous Uber is. Sadly, cut-throat businesses win. I recently took an Uber ride, where the driver was an un-retired…

Given your assessment, at least take Lyft instead. If I have a choice, I don't take Uber.

I have both apps installed. I use the one that offers me the significantly better rate.

Edit: Not just better rate, but better economic advantage. Money + Time. I'm not too rigorous about the precise trade off, but ideally, I will act as to maximize my utility frontier.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber seems like they were extremely reckless YES. I live 10 feet away from the garage. I've noticed over the past few months that they've been ramping in typical startup fashion: hockey stick growth. After reading about Lyft's CEO, a narrative of "nice guys finishing last", I started realizing how unscrupulous Uber is. Sadly, cut-throat businesses win. I recently took an Uber ride, where the driver was an un-retired…

If you evaluate Uber like that, why do you take Uber rides?

I'm an opportunist, and not an idealist. I will gladly take subsidized rides, while VCs continue to cover my fare. Uber is consistently cheaper for me than Lyft. If pricing was equal, I will choose Lyft without hesitation. If I knew with confidence that the probability of dieing in a Uber is greater than in a Lyft, I might still take the Uber if the price is attractive enough. But I can't possibly know, so my null hypothesis about the probability of dieing in either is zero, which, intuitively, not the case. Then again, I don't put money into my 401k concerned about the United States going bankrupt, either.

There is a difference between social / moral value judgments versus economic value judgment. For me, I commented on the social value judgments, but act on the economic one, unless of course the economic one is immoral. There is nothing immoral in me taking an Uber ride. I said "I'm not saying Uber or any private company MUST care", because to suggest otherwise is saying Uber HAS to act to some social value, rather than to their economic advantage.

Edit: I'll take a ride in Uber's self driving car, too. As long as it's "subsidized" at some attractive enough price. By that, I mean they pay me. What that threshold price is, I don't know, but I know it exists.

Edit 2: I love eating McDonald's. I will not boycott and refrain from eating chicken mcnuggets, even though I know their workers are being paid minimum wage. These are macroeconomic issues that I, cynically, lack the influence to affect. However, at a micro level, I give tips to employees at fastfood restaurant. I gave a $20 cash tip to this particular Uber driver, too. That's against Uber rules. That's also against what I just claimed about being economically maximizing. I don't consider the tip as part of my expense for some service / good, and rather just helping people out in general.

Re: Uber ordered to stop self-driving vehicle service in San Francisco

#160
post #15

I want self-driving cars to happen as quickly as possible, but Uber seems like they were extremely reckless and negligent here. Why not apply for a permit and stay on the safe side? And with at least two reported incidents of these cars running red lights, it seems like driver training and attentiveness was lacking. If the software wasn't ready, fine, but you have to be aware of that and train your drivers to be 100%…

> Why not apply for a permit and stay on the safe side?

Because in our world - 'do it first and ask for mercy later' works better. It probably depends on situation if it's a unethical/bad tactics or not, though.

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