And speaking of Starcraft 2 and coding, here is a Raphael.js / jQuery web app that matches up units currently in the Beta against each other: http://scstrategy.com/matchup
Starcraft II launches July 27
31–40 of 75 posts
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#32The Starcraft II beta is kind of horrifying--their excellent matchmaking ensures games are always very intense. Pardo actually commented on this at the Game Developer's Conference: "If your matchmaking is really good, it means that for every single game, you're kind of the edge of your seat," Pardo said. "After you play an hour or two of games like that, you're kind of exhausted. So we're actually talking about, 'Is…
So after playing LoL for awhile, which has a much sloppier matchup algo (it's harder to do accurately in 5 v 5 than 1 v 1) I have to tell you, better is better. The intensity of matches is part of what's made me switch to SC2. The problem with the sloppy algo is that it's rarely fun. 45% of the time you're crushing the other team so easily that it's kinda boring. 45% of the time you have 0 shot of winning, and know t…
I agree completely regarding LoL. Their matchmaking system is supposed to give you a 50% chance of winning any given match (according to their wiki). I usually pre-made with 2-4 friends, and we almost always lost. We were low levels (10-15) being matched up against five level 30's. Needless to say, we were getting crushed every time. I think I had a 15 game losing streak or something when I pre-made.
Their wiki says they make the matches harder when you pre-make with friends because they figure that you will be harder to beat. I got so tired of the uneven matchmaking that I can't bring myself to play it anymore.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#33Please, not SCII. I'M NOT GOING TO BUY IT. OK? Say it with me: I PROMISE NOT TO BUY SCII INSTEAD OF BUILDING MY COMPANY I PROMISE NOT TO BUY SCII INSTEAD OF BUILDING MY COMPANY I PROMISE NOT TO BUY SCII INSTEAD OF BUILDING MY COMPANY I PROMISE NOT TO BUY SCII INSTEAD OF BUILDING MY COMPANY I PROMISE NOT TO BUY SCII INSTEAD OF BUILDING MY COMPANY
I will build my Nexus first.
You require more minerals.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
So after playing LoL for awhile, which has a much sloppier matchup algo (it's harder to do accurately in 5 v 5 than 1 v 1) I have to tell you, better is better. The intensity of matches is part of what's made me switch to SC2. The problem with the sloppy algo is that it's rarely fun. 45% of the time you're crushing the other team so easily that it's kinda boring. 45% of the time you have 0 shot of winning, and know t…
I agree completely regarding LoL. Their matchmaking system is supposed to give you a 50% chance of winning any given match (according to their wiki). I usually pre-made with 2-4 friends, and we almost always lost. We were low levels (10-15) being matched up against five level 30's. Needless to say, we were getting crushed every time. I think I had a 15 game losing streak or something when I pre-made. Their wiki says…
They do. They add 120 to each player's ELO when queuing as a premade. The actual advantage you get from playing together ranges from much more than that (with a full team of players who coordinate well) to much less (a 2 man and a 3 man combined who don't coordinate well). We win almost every 5 man we play because we coordinate well, and none of us are that great individually so when we solo play our ELO drops.
Also, as I told Tom "Zileas" Cadwell, you can easily have a matchmaking algorithm that ensures you win 50% of the time but is not fun. If 50% of the time you're playing against hopeless newbs, and 50% of the time you're playing against the top guys, you'll win half but have fun on 0. LoL is not far from this.
LoL's matchmaking has 3 main problems that I can tell.
1. Radically different advantages to premades. Some premades get much more benefit than others. Starcraft 2 takes this into account by giving each unique premade its own rating. So if I play a 2v2 with my friend John, he and I will get a unique rating that doesn't affect matchups when I play 2v2s with my friend Chad. I'm not sure if this is an option for LoL given that it's often 5v5 (might work better on Treeline, which is 3v3) and a team is often comprised of one small premade and a few randoms, or 2 smaller premades.
2. Traction. They don't have enough people in the queue at any given point to create good matchups in a reasonable timeframe.
3. Elo. Elo ratings were meant for deterministic heads up matches. In chess, Elo works because the player who won simply played better.
LoL tries to compensate by determining why your team won or lost (and what part of that was your skill or lack thereof) when handing out the points. This is VERY hard to do well.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#35The Starcraft II beta is kind of horrifying--their excellent matchmaking ensures games are always very intense. Pardo actually commented on this at the Game Developer's Conference: "If your matchmaking is really good, it means that for every single game, you're kind of the edge of your seat," Pardo said. "After you play an hour or two of games like that, you're kind of exhausted. So we're actually talking about, 'Is…
From what I think I've noticed... It tries to match you as evenly as possible to start. If you get hot, it will find better players. If you lose a bunch, it will try matching you with worse ones. (based on ranking) I play platinum 2v2 and gold 1v1 and that's been what i've noticed. It feels like it's sorta testing out where you belong and fit in at every point in time. It also widens the matching if it can't find any…
I'm pretty sure it's just using a slightly modified Elo rating, and the updating the ladders on a weekly cron. The reason I say this is that when I first signed up, it assigned me to Silver league. I lost a bunch (it was before the beta was opened more widely and everyone there was good) at first. Then I got considerably better and won something like 17/20 games, but got bumped down to Bronze.
I can't think of any reason why I could get bumped down after a considerable winning streak other than a cron, especially since it always told me my opponent was a favorite over me and was presumably a higher Elo. It had to have been accounting for the 20 or so games I lost before I figured out what I was doing, otherwise I would have been bumped down far sooner.
(Bronze was a cakewalk, I won most games in a few minutes.)
Then they did a reset and now I'm in Silver and winning more than not. I might actually make Gold whenever the cron runs next.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#36The Starcraft II beta is kind of horrifying--their excellent matchmaking ensures games are always very intense. Pardo actually commented on this at the Game Developer's Conference: "If your matchmaking is really good, it means that for every single game, you're kind of the edge of your seat," Pardo said. "After you play an hour or two of games like that, you're kind of exhausted. So we're actually talking about, 'Is…
Since this seems to be the thread for beta participants who wants a game?
I'm themaroon there.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#37The Starcraft II beta is kind of horrifying--their excellent matchmaking ensures games are always very intense. Pardo actually commented on this at the Game Developer's Conference: "If your matchmaking is really good, it means that for every single game, you're kind of the edge of your seat," Pardo said. "After you play an hour or two of games like that, you're kind of exhausted. So we're actually talking about, 'Is…
Well, I am not in beta but I like this approach. It is much better to play a close game than to get destroyed by someone that is so much better than you that there is no contest. And of course while it is sometimes fun to stomp on a newbie, that gets old too. You learn the most from close games. You learn nothing from beating someone much worse than you. And when you are destroyed by someone much better you also usua…
I find I learn the most just watching replays on YouTube.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree completely regarding LoL. Their matchmaking system is supposed to give you a 50% chance of winning any given match (according to their wiki). I usually pre-made with 2-4 friends, and we almost always lost. We were low levels (10-15) being matched up against five level 30's. Needless to say, we were getting crushed every time. I think I had a 15 game losing streak or something when I pre-made. Their wiki says…
They do. They add 120 to each player's ELO when queuing as a premade. The actual advantage you get from playing together ranges from much more than that (with a full team of players who coordinate well) to much less (a 2 man and a 3 man combined who don't coordinate well). We win almost every 5 man we play because we coordinate well, and none of us are that great individually so when we solo play our ELO drops. Also,…
Citation needed. I read that they changed premade ELO adjustments to be negligible for bad players and high for good players. This was like a year ago or around that.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree completely regarding LoL. Their matchmaking system is supposed to give you a 50% chance of winning any given match (according to their wiki). I usually pre-made with 2-4 friends, and we almost always lost. We were low levels (10-15) being matched up against five level 30's. Needless to say, we were getting crushed every time. I think I had a 15 game losing streak or something when I pre-made. Their wiki says…
They do. They add 120 to each player's ELO when queuing as a premade. The actual advantage you get from playing together ranges from much more than that (with a full team of players who coordinate well) to much less (a 2 man and a 3 man combined who don't coordinate well). We win almost every 5 man we play because we coordinate well, and none of us are that great individually so when we solo play our ELO drops. Also,…
I understand the philosophy behind adding to a player's ELO when doing a premade. But I feel that part of the problem is that relatively new and inexperienced players (which I consider myself and the people I premade with) are going to be matched with higher ranked players. This makes it really hard and discouraging for you to play and get better when you are constantly losing to better players.
Personally, I enjoy playing the game with friends, it's more fun that way ... just not so much when you are losing badly every time.
Re: Starcraft II launches July 27
#40I have always been AOE follower, I have been observing the hype over Starcraft lately and wondering how is Starcraft different from AOE? (its like is it something huge I am missing)