Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit • Hacker News Board

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#281

Post by webwanderings » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:29 AM UTC

grzm wrote: post #276

webwanderings wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you're looking at secondary matters. Look at the consequences which results due to the primary intention. Besides, nobody opens up their houses for strangers. So it is a flawed comparison as well. You need to be honest with the premise. You are talking about an online community which is built for a purpose. Your purpose is two-fold. You want to be a nice contributor towards some ideal (nothing wrong with that)…

I'll be honest. I don't know what your point is right now (which I admit you stated explicitly above: "You are missing the point"), other than to disagree. I've read and re-read your comments in this thread, and this one in particular in an effort to figure out where you're coming from. I see no reason why the consequence of allowing people to join and contribute to an online community where they might do things I'm…

Let me ask you this: If you want to kick "people" off, because they're not playing nicely (according to you, or normal perceptions) then why in the first place you want to invite them? Note my emphasis on people which includes you as well.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#282

Post by webwanderings » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:34 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #280

webwanderings wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the business model the real premise? Without which, you won't be able to self-sustain, which then renders any other supposed premise, useless.

I think for more community-run sites, the business model is not the real premise. No one would say that the real premise of Wikipedia is collecting donations.

But Wikipedia proves that the real premise is not sustainable if they don't collect donations.

So whether one defines the hierarchy of premises or not, the fact of the matter is that the intention matters. The intention of Imzy seems to be that they want to stand against Reddit, and their stand out qualification is for people to be nice via reward-system. Now here I am not going to go into the argument of whether reward systems should be used for adults...but it is one of their premise for sure.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#283

Post by manigandham » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:37 AM UTC

webwanderings wrote: post #266

grzm wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invitation isn't to come in and do whatever you please. The invitation contains conditions. In the case of Imzy, one of them is to be nice. And the invitation doesn't necessarily mean you can stay as long as you want flouting the house rules. And the house rules can change if the owner decides the current ones need to change.

You are missing the point. Your secondary intention has no relevance because your primary intention is to "invite the strangers". When you invite strangers, you should expect anything.

I think you're missing the point - inviting strangers does not mean the absence of rules of conduct.

Any public space is open to strangers, but you can't go around murdering people.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#284

Post by throwaway4891a » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:43 AM UTC

37signals did research on this. For a respectful community, start with a difficult-to-attain, invite-only profile where a person has to show a real, verified profile pic and post their also verified name. More like ASW. Anonymous positing is useful for exposing misdeeds of power or be more honest than one would otherwise self-censor; anonymity is no panacea either.

"Safe-space" utopias never scale: there will be SJW bickering and whining and/or extreme self-censorship which will lead to an extremely boring (and irrelevant) platform. Plus, online platforms never have to guarantee free speech... they're businesses and organizations which can choose to do just about whatever they like within various, regional legal limits.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#285

Post by nekohacker » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:45 AM UTC

intortus wrote: post #258

wyager wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech just for white men isn't free speech at all. What you're describing here doesn't exist on any mainstream websites. On the other hand, there are plenty of women-only or PoC-only subreddits, for example. So while what you're saying is true, I'm not really sure why it's relevant. > exclusionary You're creating a false equivalence between two different concepts of "exclusion"; one is actual enforced exclusi…

There are a number of subreddits for women or people of color that have been very articulate about precisely this problem. They are assaulted on an ongoing basis in a way that most communities full of white men never have to worry about. That is an affront to free speech. It's not about feelings. People don't tend to swim upstream when searching for community. Why should they? If a platform demonstrates over and over…

TwoXChromosomes deals with this a lot.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#286

Post by NotAMoose » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:55 AM UTC

webwanderings wrote: post #282

rtpg wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for more community-run sites, the business model is not the real premise. No one would say that the real premise of Wikipedia is collecting donations.

But Wikipedia proves that the real premise is not sustainable if they don't collect donations. So whether one defines the hierarchy of premises or not, the fact of the matter is that the intention matters. The intention of Imzy seems to be that they want to stand against Reddit, and their stand out qualification is for people to be nice via reward-system. Now here I am not going to go into the argument of whether rew…

I'm saying that literally no where do we say that people should "tip each other for being nice", nor do we have some sort of reward system based on that. That is entirely a thing invented by clickbait headlines.

From the medium article I linked:

>Most of you know you can tip posts, comments, and communities on Imzy. It was important to us that we include our payments platform in some way from day one, and this was the simplest way to do it. You can give any community, post, or comment a reward for great content that you really appreciate. But that is just the tiniest little seed of what’s to come.

That is what got misconstrued into "tipping people for being nice."

To use something you might be familiar with, reddit has reddit gold. It gives some minor perks, and you can gift it to other people. Reddit calls this "gilding". People gild some pretty ridiculous and even awful content all the time. The idea that we would institute a tipping system (which in some ways could be seen as analogous to gilding, except with real money) and just magically everyone would use it for "being nice" simply doesn't make sense, and would have been a pretty odd idea on our part.

A lot of times folks want to tip content creators and others. We wanted to give them a way to do this. We have a bunch of other stuff planned for the payment system in the future, as outlined in that Medium piece.

Hopefully this clarifies some.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#287

Post by sanswork » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:59 AM UTC

liotier wrote: post #49

I don't understand how commenters generalize about Reddit: the is no Reddit, only subreddits - each of which is moderated in a different way. I moderate /r/Africa we deal with speech mercilessly. /r/askScience or /r/askHistorians have even stricter policies. On the other hand, there are subreddits which are most definitely hateful... But I never go there. In the middle, I'm still subscribed to /r/Europe which is a ba…

If you want to do any non-specific(ie. I like mechanical keyboards so I'll search for a subreddit on it) then you are stuck with the frontpage and all. That is the reddit people are talking about when they generalize because it is the default experience.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#288

Post by kristofferR » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 2:59 AM UTC

vanderreeah wrote: post #195

kristofferR wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what safe spaces are defined as in the dictionary, but it's not what they are in practise though. In practise it's often a system of oppressing dissenting opinions and voluntary segregation.

I can only say that when you say "in practise" you sound dogmatic, defensive and vague. I am going on the assumption that you have not (as I have not) performed any kind of scientific / sociological investigation into this and that in fact when you say "in practise" you mean "in the limited set of encounters with safe spaces that I have experienced". I admit you say "often", thereby admitting the possibility that som…

I don't really understand the point of your comment either, you didn't give any examples or give any indications that you have performed any scientific/sociological investigation into safe spaces either. My phrasing of the comment wasn't the best, I admit that, but you made an unsubstantiated claim to what safe spaces are in the comment I replied to, just as unsubstantiated as my claims.

I was actually deliberately vague in the comment. Unfortunately it's usually not a good idea to post examples in forum discussions like this, since it quickly turns into a pointless competition where the part who wastes the least time googling for examples/counter-examples/criticizing the examples the other gave are considered the loser. If I had had posted examples you would probably have clicked them, looked for flaws, wasted time criticising them and googled for examples to make your own point. Then I would have had to do the same with your examples. And so on, until one of us grew tired of it, none the wiser.

I could have posted a lot of links about safe spaces, but in practise I would just do the googling for you. NYT wrote this week about how Trump supporters feel like they need their own safe spaces on college campuses, which is a sad testament to the division and increasing political segregation in America, no matters if its trolling or genuinely felt.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#289

Post by sanswork » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 3:04 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #203

userbinator wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, it sounds very appropriate a name for an IM service, and if people were asked to guess without knowing about the site, that would probably be their first guess.

I think I'd guess it's a mixture of "image" + "etsy", or maybe a pinterest clone (image-zy). To me an issue with the name is it has no obvious non-awkward member name: Redditor sounds good; Voater quite reasonable; but is it Imzer? Imzier? Imzy-er? none of which trip off the tongue.

Could be like SA where it isn't made of up the name of the site.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#290

Post by McGlockenshire » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 3:13 AM UTC

Keyframe wrote: post #197

Somehow I think an open community can't be nice if it's anonymous. Not that all communities have to be anonymous (far from that), but if you want self-restraint then you need to revoke anonymity. I don't see how else that would work. At least a semi-anonymous system. For example one where a seed pool of people are chosen to be a part of the community and have them invite and be responsible for a certain number of chi…

> Somehow I think an open community can't be nice if it's anonymous

Facebook comments have demonstrated that having your real name attached to your internet comments does exactly nothing to stop people from saying awful things. It's a moderate deterrent at best.