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Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

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Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#151

Post by nkurz »

rmc wrote: post #90
veddox wrote: post #74

I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. To me that seems to be a rather flawed argumentation: a) The First Amendment of the US Constitution, which guarantees free speech, explicitly does so in a political context ("Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech"). Imzy is not the US Congress, they don't have jurisdict…

> I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. It's especially curious, because HN does try to have a free speech uber alles approach. If limiting speech is good for HN, why isn't it good for Imzy? It's also important to remember that reddit is very pro-free speech, but bans some protected speech, namely, doxxing. Redditors started to dox p…

HN does try to have a free speech uber alles approach

Could you explain what you mean by this? I take uber alles to mean "above all", which would imply that HN aspires to have no moderation. But this clearly isn't the case, as your next sentence says. Did you maybe mean to write "HN does not try"?

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#152

Post by jasode »

davidivadavid wrote: post #146
jasode wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>imagine a world where women who advocate for suffrage and women's rights are [...], rejected from conferences Your expanded idea of free speech is noble but it's not possible for society to provide. Free speech allowed by the government is possible. Free speech hosted and paid for by private commercial entities is impossible -- in any long-term sustaining way. The "free speech on commercial entities" would require 2…

1) The fact that they're paying for speech they disagree with isn't necessarily bad for business. Whether it causes them to lose funding/revenue is a business problem that doesn't seem inherently unsolvable. Does reddit increase or shrink their ad revenue when they decide to drop a controversial subreddit? To take the example in your other post, there's probably a bunch of offensive groups on Facebook. Does P&G threa…

>2) Not sure why that follows at all.

Because marginalized or fringe opinions already have freedom of speech at the level of ICANN DNS (get a domain name) and the ISP (pay for internet connection and virtual server to host webpages). E.g., if you really really really want to write a webpage about the benefits of child sex, you can get a domain called ChildSexIsGood.com. Host your controversial content (text not pics) there. You don't need Facebook to "approve" of your fringe content. There, you already have "freedom of speech" -- and you've had that autonomy for decades before Facebook/reddit came into existence. You still have that uncensored publishing power on DNS+ISP now.

But that's not good enough because marginalized voices also want an audience. Registering a new domain name doesn't mean you have web visitors. Without the audience, it's not "really free speech."

>What about non-ad-based revenue models?

Nobody has come up with a way for people to pay for websites with opinions they don't want to read.

Consider how hard it is for The New York Times and WSJ to entice people to pay for stories they do want to read.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#153

Post by gdulli »

veddox wrote: post #74

I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. To me that seems to be a rather flawed argumentation: a) The First Amendment of the US Constitution, which guarantees free speech, explicitly does so in a political context ("Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech"). Imzy is not the US Congress, they don't have jurisdict…

Think of Reddit as a quarantine or a honeypot. The people who don't value decency have to go somewhere.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#154

Post by userbinator »

duiker101 wrote: post #14
quickben wrote: post #6

'Imzy', the name is a bit hard to pronounce.

That's what you get when you name with this criteria: the name means nothing; it was an available URL without copyright issues

That said, it sounds very appropriate a name for an IM service, and if people were asked to guess without knowing about the site, that would probably be their first guess.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#155

Post by makomk »

jasode wrote: post #147
makomk wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything has to be a law. For example, one could imagine a world where the social norm was that services embodied some more generalized idea of free speech, and people are reluctant to use services that don't do this because one day it's likely to be used against them. Instead, the press are pushing the opposite social norm, that sites are somehow morally obligated to restrict speech: http://motherboard.vice.co…

>For example, one could imagine a world where the social norm was that services embodied some more generalized idea of free speech, and people are reluctant to use services that don't do this because one day it's likely to be used against them. Ok, I'm having trouble parsing what you wrote. I also looked at your link to see how it relates. Tell me if I interpreted your hypothetical scenario correctly: Suppose we have…

Honestly, I was more thinking about the layer of abstraction above individual communities like OrganicMothers.com and AnythingGoesMothering.com - the one made up of shared services like Reddit and Facebook that are used to establish communities, since they're harder to avoid. But even at that level, speech-restrictive websites can certainly be worrying. For example, anti-vaccination ideas are likely to be popular with your hypothetical organic mothering community, and obviously they are also likely to attract a lot of anger. So the community would certainly be a lot friendlier if they banned criticism of mothers' choices not to vaccinate their kids. Can you perhaps see how this might not be socially desirable?

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#156

Post by mattlevan »

veddox wrote: post #149
matt4077 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a large part the difference is what comedians call "punching up" vs. "punching down" – Making fun of born-again christians is a bit more legitimate because they're 40% of the (US) population and have an insane amount of power compared to the hardcore atheists insulting them. It's quite different from being a muslim in a predominantly christian country being subjected to abuse by the majority. It's also a bit more…

> It's quite different from being a muslim in a predominantly christian country being subjected to abuse by the majority. Hm, interesting that you choose the example going that way. Not to deny that Muslims face discrimination in the West, but have you had a look at what life is like for Christians in Muslim countries?

Hell-- even some types of Muslims in places where the other type of Muslim dominates.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#157

Post by Joeboy »

reitanqild wrote: post #145
BEEdwards wrote: post #29

Lot's "but this isn't free speech" in here, but that's exactly the point, free speech has been tried and it leads to shit holes like reddit and voat. Places you might visit, but wouldn't recommend or even admit to using in a mixed group. People talk about free speech like it's some goal, but in reality all people seem to do with it is make fun of fat people and post stolen naked pictures of celebrities. When confront…

Am I the only one who finds lots and lots of good stuff on forums etc? My wife is annoyed because I spend time here but just because of the time I spend not because of anything that shows up on my screen; most of the bad stuff people write about just doesn't seem to cross my path. :-/

I don't see the really insalubrious stuff on reddit unless it's via people being outraged by it. I fairly often see people being unnecessarily rude, eg. professionals on r/filmmakers are often scathing towards amateurs, particularly if they mention working for free or low wages.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#158

Post by gdulli »

jdavis703 wrote: post #26

I signed up on their website, went through the onboarding flow and joined a couple of communities. Without them knowing anything about my political leanings they suggested a bunch of anti-Trump communities. I guess they're not trying to solve the "filter bubble" issue, but rather becoming the Reddit for liberals? I mean it's their business for them to run as they like, but I hope somebody can take us past the Breitba…

In 2008 and 2012 respectively, neither the McCain nor Romney campaigns were associated with rampant fraud, demagoguery, and indecency. I didn't vote for either of them, but I didn't believe that they were terrible.

The Trump campaign earned a certain image not because it was the Republican ticket but because of its unique properties. There's a price to be paid for that, period. Such as, a lot of communities won't want to have anything to do with it.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#159

Post by DanBC »

overgard wrote: post #140
veddox wrote: post #74

I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. To me that seems to be a rather flawed argumentation: a) The First Amendment of the US Constitution, which guarantees free speech, explicitly does so in a political context ("Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech"). Imzy is not the US Congress, they don't have jurisdict…

Well, lets say you know someone who is a legit flat earther. You're not going to change their mind, because such a belief is unreasonable, but if you attempt to reason with them you elevate their social status and accidentally lend credence to them. This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" model -- if you give equal time to both viewpoints, even if one viewpoint is nuts, people will assume that there's a rational deb…

> When someone says something really stupid, often the best response really is mockery.

That's not working for climate change, brexit, the Us election, etc etc etc.

Maybe it's time to accept that mockery is a sub-optimal tactic that makes you feel good but is counter-productive.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#160

Post by davidivadavid »

jasode wrote: post #152
davidivadavid wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) The fact that they're paying for speech they disagree with isn't necessarily bad for business. Whether it causes them to lose funding/revenue is a business problem that doesn't seem inherently unsolvable. Does reddit increase or shrink their ad revenue when they decide to drop a controversial subreddit? To take the example in your other post, there's probably a bunch of offensive groups on Facebook. Does P&G threa…

>2) Not sure why that follows at all. Because marginalized or fringe opinions already have freedom of speech at the level of ICANN DNS (get a domain name) and the ISP (pay for internet connection and virtual server to host webpages). E.g., if you really really really want to write a webpage about the benefits of child sex, you can get a domain called ChildSexIsGood.com. Host your controversial content (text not pics)…

1) But free speech doesn't entitle you to an audience? Not sure why you're making that leap. It's free speech regardless of the existence of an audience.

2) Sure. And people read the fraction of the NYT they do want to read. And they pay for the part they don't want to read too, because it is happily packaged with the rest. There could also be other business models that involve other third parties than advertisers. Who knows?

Edit: Engrish.

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