Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is why their argument here is bullshit.
They aren't comparing HTML5 to Native Apps, they're comparing HTML5 to Flash.
That's the spin talking. The issue here is market control and always has been.
Thoughts on Flash
361–370 of 522 posts
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#362I have never seen any thread earning this many up-votes and comments on HN!!
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can't you create a barebones cocoa touch app that basically just shows safari, and your app runs inside that as ja and HTML?
You could, but Apple are rejecting apps that are just web views or RSS readers so I wouldn't recommend it.
A full app that runs inside a WebView is very different from an app that is just a WebView.
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "based on miscreant use" That's being a bit generous in favor of Adobe - the majority of the Flash development sphere is practically what one would consider "miscreant use". Here's my impression of the different sorts of Flash use, based on my journeys on the web: - Videos/Audio: Easily replaced by HTML5, and better too. More readily hardware accelerated, behaves as part of the core browser instead of a hijacking a…
> That's being a bit generous in favor of Adobe - the majority of the Flash development sphere is practically what one would consider "miscreant use". The vast majority of websites in general are poor. It would be no surprise to see that the majority of Flash sites would also be poor. Both sides have exceptions, though. > Videos/Audio: Easily replaced by HTML5, and better too. More readily hardware accelerated, behav…
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Re: Thoughts on Flash
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's being a bit generous in favor of Adobe - the majority of the Flash development sphere is practically what one would consider "miscreant use". The vast majority of websites in general are poor. It would be no surprise to see that the majority of Flash sites would also be poor. Both sides have exceptions, though. > Videos/Audio: Easily replaced by HTML5, and better too. More readily hardware accelerated, behav…
It's not the cheese I object to - but that the Cheese breaks the internet in fundamental ways. Example: We just wrapped up Restaurant Week here in Seattle where a bunch of local establishments offered up prix-fixe specials for a couple of weeks. The website for this event was done up all in Flash, and made it impossible to crawl for a search engine, or even to link or bookmark a particular restaurant for later retrie…
> What did we exchange for this cheese and gimmicky design? Everything.
I agree that if you don't follow the proper protocol you will end up with an undesirable site. I can't argue that Flash == HTML in terms of accessibility. There are ways within Flash to harness some accessibility but it is up to the developer to implement these. An informational site in Flash is a bad choice. I would never suggest the use of Flash for broad use. A fun site (like http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo) is more appropriate.
> - you can link to
> - you can bookmark
Named-anchors and proper implementation (same as AJAX RIA)
> - you can copy and paste
"Selectable text" is an option in any Flash text field.
> - you can search for in-browser (doubly important if the website fails at layout, e.g. most Flash sites!)
> - you can search for on Google/Bing
Flash exports text within to the container. Google also can search SWF.
> Those are pretty important.
Agree.
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#366"We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash." I can attest to the veracity of this statement. My MBP's processor spikes whenever I get on YouTube or any other Flash-based site. I've had a couple of major crashes on both Firefox and Chrome while using Flash. I've also heard other users express similar views with these and other browsers on Ubuntu.
One of the big reasons I use Safari on Snow Leopard is that when Flash crashes, it doesn't take the whole browser with it.
That said, I've started using ClickToFlash, which prevents Flash from loading except when I tell it to, and my browsing experience has become far faster and more reliable than it ever was before.
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
Less of an explicit standard and more the previous consensus that the company that sells you your computer shouldn't retain control over what kind of legitimate software you can run on it after it's in your possession, based on some self-aggrandizing notion that they know what's best for you better than you do.
Uh? Have you met users before?
That's exactly the mentality that keeps 'users' stupid.
Apple is basically saying: "users are stupid, let's protect them from thinking." Imagine if we said that about our kids: "Our kids don't know how to handle the real world. Let's protect them from having to deal with it." (never mind that most parents do in fact go through this phase).
The reality is that users are just kids who haven't learned how to use computers. Two factors make this hard: most computer software is generally poorly designed (speaking in terms of the number of poorly designed products vs the number of well-designed products), and most software is not designed to teach users how to use it.
Apple is busy buying fish for starving people. The company that teaches users how to fish is the company that will win big.
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many of Microsoft's OSes have specifically forbidden that you install another web browser?
Did I miss Apple removing Opera from the App Store?
That's Opera Mini -- most other mobile platforms have the full Opera Mobile browser available (or soon). That browser is explicitly against the rules of the app store (as it runs interpreted code downloaded off the Internet).
[Edit: What's with the down votes -- this is factual information]
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They don't care about open standards - that they would is, on the face of it, absurd. They really do care about open standards. There is no reason why WebKit and several other projects have to be run in the open, after they stopped releasing several parts of Darwin, but they are. At worst, this is because there is more than one person at Apple, and the people who want things to be proprietary don't care about this…
Webkit has to be run in the open; it's originally based on KHTML and inherits its LGPL.
WebCore and JavaScriptCore are based off KHTML and KJS, but WebKit (which unites the two into a usable API) is Apple code and doesn't have to be open source (it was closed source until 2005).
Re: Thoughts on Flash
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mono implements a good bit of .NET, but not all of it. That doesn't make it any less of an open platform.
Really? I consider .net a closed platform, as it is controlled by a single vendor, there is no patent guarantee (as Miguel has mentioned) and the alternative implementations (like GNash does with Flash) always lag behind. (I happen to like .net, by the way, I just think it's closed.)
.NET is a closed platform — but Mono, which does implement parts of .NET in addition to their own changes, is an open platform. All of Mono's design and implementation is transparent.