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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#461
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are cubans in miami celebrating his death? Are they misguided minorities that should follow the example of armchair politicians in privledged countries?

Because they are descendants of the middle and upper classes who benefited from the previous regime and lost everything when Castro came to power.

They are actually descendants of the people who had a good life under the dictatorship of Batista.

Cuban Revolution was not for a wimp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#462

After reading some of the comments here, my fath in the human race is not enhanced. Castro was a genuine hero and a great man; indeed among the top 10 greatest individuals of the 20th century. He believed in freedom and dignity. He saw the US government as the enemy of progress everywhere in the world; he wanted people to be free and he devoted his life to that ideal. How many people can you say that of? > He was als…

> He believed in freedom > I detest the hypocrisy I see in many (not all) western commentators. A counterexample: this photo was taken in NYC after the most recent US presidential election: http://i.imgur.com/DcVbqAm.jpg It's a picture of someone standing in front of Trump Tower holding a sign that says "You're not my president. Fuck you." Can you imagine someone getting away with that in Castro's Cuba?

I understand you point on freedom of speech, but in this case I don't see it as something to be particularly proud of.

Maybe Americans value their rights more than anything else, but to me as a Chinese citizen, this is both laughable and disrespectful.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#463
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Castro is up there with the worst of the worst (Hitler, Pol pot, amin, mugabe, chavez, Kim Jong, Stalin, Mao, etc) these individuals resigned to their humanity the moment they decided to step all over their citizen's rights and dignity for their own benefit. Please stop trying to humanize him.

A yes, one bucket holds all evil, and the bool is the only integer the honest man needs, that's your position I take it?

Not "all" evil but malicious intent and a complete lack of empathy for the suffering of others.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#464
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandela or Hitler are don't seem particularly anti-American. "The forms of government have always been different. But this cannot be a reason for hostility between different nations, as long as one form of government does not try to interfere with another, outside of its naturally ordained sphere." http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p389_Hitler.html

I suppose I didn't pick the best examples. Though Mandela was a critic of the US in later years regarding Iraq / Israel, and Hitler's sentiment on America seems to be complex: a combination of not taking america too seriously and not desiring conflict too early. But I don't think that changes my original point, which is that all dictators can be seen as serving their people, depending on how you define "their people"…

I don't disagree, but the comment you replied to was about the direct correlation between "the amount of anti-American rhetoric" and "how much they screw their country over" so the fact that you choose as example dictators which were not very high in the anti-American rhetoric axis kind of supports his case.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right after the USA acknowledges ALL of their crimes against humanity, which are far more and spread much more wider. No cuban children sleeps in the streets tonight. You can't say that about northamerican children.

How could you possibly assume that no children in Cuba sleep on the streets?

I think his general point was that there are basically no homeless people. True or not, this can easily be checked by traveling there. It is possible to travel freely and I certainly got the same impression while I was there.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#466
post #365

I would encourage the commenters in this thread who see Fidel's legacy as a black-and-white matter of an "evil dictator who did bad things and was wrong about economics" to step back, bear witness to the objective facts about Fidel Castro's life ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro ), think sincerely about what could lead a highly intelligent and charismatic person to become or follow Fidel Castro (as many ha…

On the contrary, it's dangerous not to call out evil for what it is. Of course it might be wise to try to analyze what genetic/family/social/economic/political factors shape people like Castro, Gaddafi, Franco etc. — but if you think you're dealing with people like you and me you fail to grasp the phenomenon. Dictators that prosecute and murder their opponents, like Castro did, share a very predictable set of psychop…

You see world in black and white only. There is no black and white, there are only shades of gray. You think that those people were psychopaths from the beginning? Then you are wrong. A lot of dictators were idealists, they would do everything for their country, sometimes too much. They were loving fathers and sons. Some of them truly believed in equality for all and wanted to make their country better, life of their citizens better. I assure you, people can change a lot in their life, who knows what would you do or anyone else if you would live those people life. Sure you can deny that you would never kill anyone or hurt anyone in your life, but it's very naive. You say they are not normal, what about all those who killed people in terrorist attacks, a lot of them were by your definition "normal" before they did that, they never ever thought they would be capable to hurt any other human. They did it because environment variables changed, they have changed. You think you know what you would do in every situation in life but the truth is that no one knows until certain situations happen.

Of course their actions should be condemned but what you wrote is just wrong, a lot of them were like us until they stopped.. Most murderers do not born as murderers, they are made murderers.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family and the family of just about everyone I grew up around had their whole lives destroyed by this evil man. He has executed thousands, has imprisoned thousands more, and has totally ruined a country that was once the most prosperous in Latin America. You may philosophize about the 'complexity' of the life of this evil man, but for people who actually lived under his abuse, who have seen what he has done to the…

It's easy to forget the cost of prosperity to those who were not prosperous. Pre-Castro Cuba was rife with racism and inequality, extreme and abject poverty, a segregated society, under violently repressive and corrupt governments. I can't say anything about your experience, but I can share something about my childhood in Brazil. A middle-class home, private school, private health-care family under a brutal US-sponso…

I 100% agree with your post, but, did Castro regime have to kill his opponents?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#468

He has certainly led one of the most exciting lives of our times... And despite his flaws (and/or crimes against humanity) I can't help but wonder how Cuba would have faired under different leadership. Looking at the next-island neighbors in Haiti, or any number of comparable African countries, it seems the Cubans got the better deal. Just one example: life expectancy is 15 years higher than Haiti, and actually even…

Legitimate question, was the Soviet Union subsidising Cuba during the Cold War (besides military protection) ?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#469

I would encourage the commenters in this thread who see Fidel's legacy as a black-and-white matter of an "evil dictator who did bad things and was wrong about economics" to step back, bear witness to the objective facts about Fidel Castro's life ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro ), think sincerely about what could lead a highly intelligent and charismatic person to become or follow Fidel Castro (as many ha…

> Fidel Castro's mistakes are our mistakes to repeat, or to learn from.

i don't see how i could ever turn into a dictator who puts his political opponents in jail (as well as everyone who just wants to get out of the country) - all in the name of some higher cause. Interesting if these dictators ever took note of the discrepancy between the Cause and reality; or were they always able to self-justify their actions like in the 'grand inquisitor' by Dostoevsky, who knows...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "On the contrary, it's dangerous not to call out evil for what it is." Judging on the comments on this thread most people (I'm not specifically referring to you) are making statements based on what they've heard, not by what they've personally researched, and unfortunately a lot of that information is biased or propaganda. I'm not coming down one way or the other but something I found very interesting was comparin…

> Judging on the comments on this thread most people (I'm not specifically referring to you) are making statements based on what they've heard, not by what they've personally researched, and unfortunately a lot of that information is biased or propaganda. By any objective measure - and according to experts on human rights and liberty - Cuba is one of the most repressive countries on earth. https://freedomhouse.org/co…

Well, Freedom House, according to wikipedia:

"U.S. Government funded non-governmental organisation (NGO) that conducts research and advocacy on democracy, political freedom, and human rights

Representatives of Cuba said that the organization is a U.S. foreign policy instrument linked to the CIA and "submitted proof of the politically motivated, interventionist activities the NGO (Freedom House) carried out against their Government". They also claimed a lack of criticism of U.S. human rights violations in the annual reports. Cuba also stated that these violations are well documented by other reports, such as those of Human Rights Watch. The Russian representative inquired "why this organization, an NGO which defended human rights, was against the creation of the International Criminal Court."

There is so much propaganda regarding this little Caribbean island, that it is wise to carefully consider one's sources.

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