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Before You Grow

blog.ycombinator.com

71–80 of 175 posts

Re: Before You Grow

#71

Do people have thoughts or pointers for building something users love when your product depends on there being enough users using the product? Dating apps, platforms and such. When a single user gets no utility from your product if there aren't enough already using it, what does one do? You kind of have to spend some money marketing to get the initial word out. This is something I've been struggling with. We've been…

You should look into improving your Single User Utility.

Here are some links to get started:

http://avc.com/2012/12/single-user-utility-in-a-social-syste...

http://andrewchen.co/social-products-win-with-utility-not-in...

http://platformed.info/seeding-platform-standalone-square-op...

There are also countless examples of successful two-sided marketplaces who started out by "nurturing" (aka faking) one side of the market until they reached their critical mass.

Re: Before You Grow

#72

I recently came across an app lets you measure NPS directly on your website - https://www.metriculator.com Seems really nice. I figured it might be useful for folks trying to run an NPS survey after reading Sam's recommendation.

This is awesome. Way better than email.

Re: Before You Grow

#73

I'm curious about how this maps to enterprise products? Can you create an enterprise-targeted product that users truly love? Any examples of this?

The enterprise sales process isn't what it used to be. Before, you had to get an audience with the CIO (or whoever controlled the department budget) to have a chance.

The shift has been that employees and individual teams now have a lot of say in what tools they use -- sometimes without the higher-ups knowing about it until it's seen a good amount of adoption amongst internal teams. SaaS with instant access and 0 deploy times makes this possible.

Another shift is that employees will now carry their championed products with them from one company to another. In an area like Silicon Valley where job hopping is common, the social/word-of-mouth effects on enterprise software is significant.

Slack has already been mentioned and is a prime example of both.

With our own "enterprise" product, we're seeing the same -- adoption from teams and employees that eventually can become something more. But, this can only happen if you're resonating with some group of users that love your product.

Re: Before You Grow

#74
Easier said than done :-)

But, I have a better advice: Do not spend money and time promoting something that sucks or it is not useful.

Re: Before You Grow

#75
I really wish we could see some metrics on products people 'love'.

I'm working on a product that is seeing great growth (free atm), and what appears to me to be good customer engagement.

When I break things, users email and let us know, time on site is good, etc. etc. At what point do you go, yup, this is something people love.

Of course, I'm still making product improvements and figuring out what people will pay for.

Re: Before You Grow

#76
Everyone says to create a product that is loved (agreed), but how do you get constructive feedback in the early days?

I've experienced that many users are unwilling to engage in conversation, they test it and if they don't like it they leave and won't communicate why.

Suppose one creates a new Whatsapp-like product, how would one, in practice, go about gathering feedback?

Re: Before You Grow

#77
This is good advice but on a practical level isn't clearly compatible with other advice like "fix the plane while it's flying".

Also I was under the impression YCombinator focuses on helping companies grow and organizes a demo day 3 months later to help them raise money from VCs. The pg article even mentions growth targets during YC. If this is true then companies accepted to YC should already have a product people love and be ready to hack growth over the next 3 months. This clearly is not the case (eg Airbnb joined YC after about a year not 1000 days).

If YC is not only about growth but also about helping companies at much earlier stage still working on the product people love stage, that would seem to be a challenge. What do YC speakers talk about? Growth or Product? It's like putting kids learning Algebra in the same class as those ready for Calculus, not easy at all. Maybe there should be two types of YC sessions then? One for early startups still working on product, another YC for startups working on growth...

Every founder I have ever met wants their product to be loved, but unfortunately they need time and money to figure this out. Other issues: it's hard to know when to walk away pre-product and pitching VCs without growth doesn't seem to work. So founders raise money by showing early "growth" without PML (product/market love), then they go back to work on the product and when PML doesn't materialize in the first couple months they start to get nervous and switch resources back to growth hacking their mediocre product so they can be ready to raise money again and have another chance.

Obviously this is all very complicated, full of exceptions to rules. In reality product and growth have to be going on at once - but the timelines and resources and challenges to do product and growth at the same time should be part of the advice.

Re: Before You Grow

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the rule still applies. Get it out fast so you can find out if your users love it. Just don't push it to a broader audience. Iphone app companies do this one neat trick for this. They release in foreign markets (Canada, Australia, etc) and make sure their users love their apps before releasing in the US.

I remember seeing supermarket checkout scanners in Vancouver BC and wondering what this space age (now there's a dated term) technology was and why it wasn't already in use in Silicon Valley in 1980. George Bush was similarly amazed ... in 1992. The UPC was developed in the US starting in 1966 starting from freight car identification. Yes, late product release in the US even if the product was developed in the US is…

George H. Bush was "amazed" because he was being shown a newly developed model just being rolled out that scanned form multiple angles instead of just the bottom.

Re: Before You Grow

#79

Everyone says to create a product that is loved (agreed), but how do you get constructive feedback in the early days? I've experienced that many users are unwilling to engage in conversation, they test it and if they don't like it they leave and won't communicate why. Suppose one creates a new Whatsapp-like product, how would one, in practice, go about gathering feedback?

If you're standing in front of them with a notebook in hand, it's hard for them to avoid saying something. So that's step one.

Step two would be to interpret nothingness as (negative) feedback that your product wasn't interesting enough for them to bother commenting on. Which probably means you're not solving a deep enough problem.

This problem is really hard for whatsapp-like products, since people already have their problems solved pretty well in that domain and so they are less likely to find a new product particularly interesting. If I were advising a startup who were making a whatsapp-like product then I would tell them to find a narrower niche where they could solve a deeper problem.

Re: Before You Grow

#80

I really wish we could see some metrics on products people 'love'. I'm working on a product that is seeing great growth (free atm), and what appears to me to be good customer engagement. When I break things, users email and let us know, time on site is good, etc. etc. At what point do you go, yup, this is something people love. Of course, I'm still making product improvements and figuring out what people will pay for…

Isn't there like the first 1000 rule or something? Like once you have 1000 people who are truly your fans, then you can go crazy with all the other bullshit?
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