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Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#381

Post by glenndebacker »

The problem is that it's a counterproductive move. In Belgium / Flanders we had an extreme far right political party called the Flemish Block.

Af first the media gave them no air time, they weren't invited to political debates, they filtered them out like they didn't exist. The political parties created a cordon sanitaire, somekind of agreement to never create a government with that party involved.

The result? The biggest win ever for a far right party. To this day that particular moment in history is called black sunday. They were the underdog, the ideal party to give a protest vote and their idea's for a lot didn't seem that ridiculous as they got no confrontations.

Later they tried to outlaw the party but it just resurfaced as a new party called the Flemish importance (Vlaams Belang). Then something changed and they got more airtime, they were invited to political debates or debates too court.

The result ? People saw how ridiculous some of their arguments were or how they lost debates when confronted with just sane arguments.... Today they are a marginally sized party at best and nobody is scared from them anymore.

The only way you can defeat those ideas is not by taking away their voice, but to let them speak.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#382

Post by dopamean »

EJTH wrote: post #213

So freedom of speech is now only for religious extremists like ISIS, Al-Nusra etc. whos supporters are free to express themselves on twitter. The more the establishement tries to fight the alt-right, the more free (and valid?) publicity it recieves. I didn't really believe in the so called "anti-white" agenda, but the more I see these guys getting censored for simply expressing their (somewhat legitimate) concerns an…

I always assumed ISIS stuff was permitted on twitter because (rightly or wrongly) the government used it as a source of intelligence.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#383

Post by TheCoelacanth »

jimmywanger wrote: post #376
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that restroom can be legally entered by any person who is willing to say out loud "I feel like I am a woman" That's a conservative talking point, not the reality of the situation. In reality, a trans person will have to go far beyond just feeling like a woman to get away with entering a women's room; they will also have to take substantial steps towards looking like a woman.

Actually, you don't. You don't even have to feel like a woman to enter a woman's room, you just have to say you identify as a woman. "Substantial steps towards looking like a woman." What does a woman look like? A woman looks like whatever she chooses to look like. Actually, she sort of looks like me after Taco Tuesdays where I have to use the restroom really badly and all the stalls in the men's bathroom are full. I…

Go to a state that doesn't have a bathroom bill and walk into the women's room claiming that you feel like a woman and let me know how that works out for you.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#384

Post by 67726e »

orcdork wrote: post #353
67726e wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that white Americans were not the only folks to own slaves or oppress a people, right? Ask yourself this, would the results be different if I tweeted that from the Barbary coast were roles were largely reversed? How about from a SLAVic nation?

And? This isn't a discussion on the slave trade. I was pointing out that the origin of the comment was by a biased source, which changes the context of the text to thinly veiled racism. And by biased source, I mean a racist idiot promoting his shitty ideas.

Every race had been subjugated violently by another. Claiming one deserves special treatment is itself racist. Ask yourself this: Would the situation with the tweets be reversed if someone from the Barbary coast, which has a history of white slavery, reported the two tweets?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#385

Post by jimmywanger »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #383
jimmywanger wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you don't. You don't even have to feel like a woman to enter a woman's room, you just have to say you identify as a woman. "Substantial steps towards looking like a woman." What does a woman look like? A woman looks like whatever she chooses to look like. Actually, she sort of looks like me after Taco Tuesdays where I have to use the restroom really badly and all the stalls in the men's bathroom are full. I…

Go to a state that doesn't have a bathroom bill and walk into the women's room claiming that you feel like a woman and let me know how that works out for you.

Sure. Do that in any company bathroom and nobody will say anything.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#386

Post by leereeves »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #319
leereeves wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's true, but I also think one reason that works for him is that the left is so hostile to a moderate position.

Seems more directly applicable that it works for him because the alt-right is so hostile to a moderate position.

Both sides are.

People had to choose between two extremes, not one extreme and one moderate position.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#387

Post by RileyKyeden »

glenndebacker wrote: post #381

The problem is that it's a counterproductive move. In Belgium / Flanders we had an extreme far right political party called the Flemish Block. Af first the media gave them no air time, they weren't invited to political debates, they filtered them out like they didn't exist. The political parties created a cordon sanitaire, somekind of agreement to never create a government with that party involved. The result? The bi…

We tried that. Now we have President-elect Donald Trump and a wave of hate crimes.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#388

Post by pron »

xaa wrote: post #362
pron wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That disconnect is because the definition of racism has changed over the last 8 years in practice, and since the development of "systemic racism" in theory. What you call "systemic racism" has been known simply as "racism" in academic circles for the past few decades . Put succinctly, in research circles, racism is the property of a society that results in grossly unequal distribution of power among social groups v…

All you say is true, as I understand it, but there are two problems: First, social scientists are overwhelmingly liberal. Normally, I don't have a problem with an appeal to "academic circles" as I'm in them. But this is a legitimate reason, I think, for conservatives to be skeptical of the motivations and reasoning here in such a politically-fraught topic. Secondly, redefining words with existing meanings is a bad id…

> this is a legitimate reason, I think, for conservatives to be skeptical of the motivations and reasoning here in such a politically-fraught topic.

It is a legitimate reason to be skeptical, but not a very interesting starting point for a discussion if one side isn't even interested in rigorously studying the subject at all. There's a vast knowledge gap between the two sides.

> Secondly, redefining words with existing meanings is a bad idea that only leads to confusion.

In the case of racism it's not clear which definition came first. In the case of sexism, the situation is clearer: the academic, feminist definition came first, and has indeed been continually misinterpreted.

> I think it is disingenuous to blame the public for "misinterpreting" what is meant by "racism" in this context

I'm not blaming the public for the misunderstanding at all, but many people are actively hostile to even trying to understand the more well-researched point of view, so I'm not sure you can blame the academics, either.

After all, people who have not studied psychology, sociology, anthropology or history find it hard to accept how social dynamics and prejudice work through them without them being aware of it, just as it took 300 years for people to accept that some disease is caused by invisible microbes. Sadly, we do not yet have a simple, self-evident experiment like Pasteur's to demonstrate the existence of racism (and even after Pasteur's experiments, it took a couple of more decades for most people to become convinced). So you cannot deny the active resistance to the idea.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#389

Post by bluecalm »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #222
quonn wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Abortion is another I see both sides on and believe compromise is the best way forward. How would such a compromise look like? > In some cases (like abortion) conservatives have their heart in the right places. Right, but this is already your personal judgement. For example I personally feel that the conservative stance on abortion is cruel and creates more suffering.

>How would such a compromise look like? Stop legal abortions at the age of viability as arrived at through scientific consensus. >I personally feel that the conservative stance on abortion is cruel... In some cases, it is. I'm not agreeing with all the anti-abortion arguments. I have also talked with "progressive" family members that have a cold/cruel absolutist view of it. In their mind, 8 months was fair game, beca…

I think most pro-life people are motivated by their empathy and need to defend the weak. Still they are very authoritarian on the issue and just can't admit the other side's moral views are valid. Abortion being allowed lets both groups live according to their moral views while the ban enforces pro-life view on pro-choice people.

Abortion ban as political issue and abortion as moral issue are a different matter. The latter is an interesting thing to debate in light of various ethical principles. The former should be straightforward (if it wasn't for desire to impose your morality on others and control their lives). Once you admit both sides have a point the only option left is being pro-choice. Pro-life argument is based on "I am right, you are wrong and I am willing to legislate against you even though your decisions have 0 influence on my life". It's very similar to legislating against gay sex in this respect (no influence on you but as you find it disgusting you are willing to legislate against it).

Abortion is the biggest issue I disagree with conservatives and even though I lean more right as I am getting older and as the left (in my view) is collectively losing their mind this one I really can't get over.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#390

Post by pron »

kofejnik wrote: post #368
pron wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That disconnect is because the definition of racism has changed over the last 8 years in practice, and since the development of "systemic racism" in theory. What you call "systemic racism" has been known simply as "racism" in academic circles for the past few decades . Put succinctly, in research circles, racism is the property of a society that results in grossly unequal distribution of power among social groups v…

There's little evidence social "scientists" are really scientists

I'm not sure, but there's certainly plenty of evidence that they know a lot more about society than people who don't bother studying it at all.
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