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Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#181

Post by iopq »

kemayo wrote: post #137
leereeves wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In truth this happens to all races. It does happen to black people somewhat more often, per capita, but 50% of people killed by police are white.

Mind, since ~70% of the US population is white, that does imply whites are less likely to be killed by the police. Predicting the likely response to this, of course, we get into the (surprisingly hard to accurately work out) question of what proportion of crimes are committed by people of various races, and to what extent that figure is manipulated by conscious / subconscious bias on the part of law enforcement. (It'…

Yes, but whites are less likely to be suspects in crimes (per capita, since whites live in nicer areas on average), so the polices won't stop them as often.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#182

Post by jsmith0295 »

rm999 wrote: post #151
alistproducer2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a bad place to discuss this sort of stuff because you're always risking karma, but here goes. As a liberal, I will say that liberals drastically overplayed their hand the last 8 years. Many of us have been saying for a while that the language, tenor, and actions of recent liberal movements was ultimately counter productive. I understand and share the demand to be treated decently and equally, but admittedly thi…

> Micro-aggression, safe spaces, trigger words I think you're missing some perspective on this; a small % of activists on the left (mostly on college campuses) do not represent the trends of liberals in the USA. I can't think of a mainstream Democrat who considers these serious causes (including liberal ones like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren). The reality is the left has been making huge inroads on social cause…

It's not just a small percentage of activists. I'm 21, and I live in Ohio, which Trump won by 9 points, and it seems like a huge portion of people about my age are proponents of these ideas, on or off of college campuses. People call things "white" as in insult, they constantly say things like "white people have no culture", and really do seem to believe that all evil in the world is the result of things white men do. Anyone who tries to disagree with them gets shouted at and accused of being a long list of terrible buzzwords. As someone from a very poor family who didn't have great opportunities, this shit is infuriating. It basically seems like some sort of cancer is rapidly metasticizing and there's not much of anything that can be done about it. There's 0 willingness to have a discussion about anything.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#183

Post by serge2k »

xaa wrote: post #38
micaksica wrote: post #8

I'm not a fan of the "alt-right" or a lot of its subculture. I also don't find it particularly "alt", as much as it is "far" right. It is a lot of the ideas that powered the NSDAP enveloped in the language of the Internet and memes, with the targets broadened from Jewry to non-whites in general. However, I'm also not a fan of suspending these accounts for controversial views if they are not harassing people on the Tw…

Agree. The first thing I thought upon reading this was: would Twitter ban an account with the following description: "dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of African descent in the United States, and around the world." Undoubtedly not. The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g. I'm a liberal, but I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "…

> The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g.

In a literal sense, but the latter is a pretty good example of a white nationalist dog whistle.

> I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "undesirable" views only makes them stronger

That's your takeaway? Not that having a presidential candidate on TV giving his implicit approval to these ideas makes them stronger?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#184

Post by masondixon »

xaa wrote: post #38
micaksica wrote: post #8

I'm not a fan of the "alt-right" or a lot of its subculture. I also don't find it particularly "alt", as much as it is "far" right. It is a lot of the ideas that powered the NSDAP enveloped in the language of the Internet and memes, with the targets broadened from Jewry to non-whites in general. However, I'm also not a fan of suspending these accounts for controversial views if they are not harassing people on the Tw…

Agree. The first thing I thought upon reading this was: would Twitter ban an account with the following description: "dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of African descent in the United States, and around the world." Undoubtedly not. The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g. I'm a liberal, but I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "…

> it should be that suppression of "undesirable" views only makes them stronger

100%. Throwing around "white supremacy" and "racist" is strengthening the actual KKK/Nazi types.

> It's almost as if the Founders foresaw this somehow,

I am amazed that the Founding Fathers seemed to have such foresight.

Its hard to see anyone who would be a "Founding Father"-type figure today.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#185

Post by serge2k »

prewett wrote: post #138
alistproducer2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a bad place to discuss this sort of stuff because you're always risking karma, but here goes. As a liberal, I will say that liberals drastically overplayed their hand the last 8 years. Many of us have been saying for a while that the language, tenor, and actions of recent liberal movements was ultimately counter productive. I understand and share the demand to be treated decently and equally, but admittedly thi…

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

> unwilling to consider the merits of the other side

Yes, but now people are going for an immediate overcorrection.

Tossing Brandon Eich out of Mozilla is the type of behavior that liberals probably should reconsider. I do think he was wrong, but is he really an evil man who deserved get kicked out of his company. I don't believe so.

Is the University of Toronto professor who is fighting to not use preferred gender pronouns a terrible person who liberals should hate? No, I don't think so. Especially when his argument is that it's compelled speech and violation of his charter rights.

Are the white supremacists and other racists who have come out of the woodwork to support trump bad people. Yes. They are. They need to be opposed.

> the conservatives have a point that it is also killing babies

It's not killing babies.

That being said, it's completely understandable that it is a moral issue for people. They believe it is wrong. That's not a viewpoint that makes you a bad person.

> there are some good arguments to the other side, too

Oh really? What are they? I've yet to hear a single one.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#186

Post by masondixon »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150
prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

The problem is definitions.

> if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty

This requires definitions of what "life" and "liberty" mean. Once you choose these definitions you must ensure they are consistently applied to all your arguments.

> Gay people getting married deprives no one of anything.

What does "deprive" mean?

If we continued this discussion debating the definitions, the key would be ensuring they are applied consistently to all other claims by both parties. This is practically endless.

Maybe we need a new dictionary that is more specific and uses examples. Just like Stack Overflow Documentation - they realised that the key to good documentation is examples.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#187

Post by serge2k »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150
prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

> For example, the trans bathroom thing. I legitimately see both sides on that

Really? I don't. It's a weird thing to care so much about.

> In some cases (like abortion) conservatives have their heart in the right places

Do they? I guess you could argue that cruel laws like the one Pence signed in Illinois are the only recourse they have for what they consider a moral battle.

I'm not sure how you can explain away fighting abortion while simultaneously fighting sexual education, contraceptive use, and welfare for those people who choose to keep the baby when they have no real hope of raising it well without help.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#188

Post by quonn »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150
prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

> Abortion is another I see both sides on and believe compromise is the best way forward.

How would such a compromise look like?

> In some cases (like abortion) conservatives have their heart in the right places.

Right, but this is already your personal judgement. For example I personally feel that the conservative stance on abortion is cruel and creates more suffering.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#189

Post by masondixon »

rm999 wrote: post #151
alistproducer2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a bad place to discuss this sort of stuff because you're always risking karma, but here goes. As a liberal, I will say that liberals drastically overplayed their hand the last 8 years. Many of us have been saying for a while that the language, tenor, and actions of recent liberal movements was ultimately counter productive. I understand and share the demand to be treated decently and equally, but admittedly thi…

> Micro-aggression, safe spaces, trigger words I think you're missing some perspective on this; a small % of activists on the left (mostly on college campuses) do not represent the trends of liberals in the USA. I can't think of a mainstream Democrat who considers these serious causes (including liberal ones like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren). The reality is the left has been making huge inroads on social cause…

> public perception of gay marriage

Although Obama was opposed to gay marriage when elected, I will say that this is an issue that the progressives have driven into the public consciousness.

But Trump will be the first elected President to support gay marriage when entering office.

> police violence against blacks

There are far more protests about police violence against blacks now.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#190

Post by serge2k »

rm999 wrote: post #161
alistproducer2 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a small % of activists on the left A vocal minority + rapid societal change + social media echo chambers = reactionary backlash = Donald Trump presidency >I wouldn't extrapolate much from this election I would. 60+ million people voting for a man as odious and unprepared as Donald Trump says a whole lot to me. That and pretty much total Republican domination on the state level. The GOP is one state house away from b…

>I would. 60+ million people voting for a man as odious and unprepared as Donald Trump says a whole lot to me. Let me rephrase: you are extrapolating the wrong thing when you say the "liberals drastically overplayed their hand" and then use this election as evidence. Obama almost certainly would have annihilated Trump (his support in rural swing states is much stronger than Hillary's), and he's more liberal than Hill…

Hillary's problem is that she's just not likable, in the sense that people are not going to get excited to vote for Hillary.

Obama got people excited. He had a message he got out to people and they responded in a huge way. I'm really not sure what Hillary's was.

Trump got a different set excited. Sure some are deplorable. A lot are just republicans. A lot are people who just want their lives to be as good as they used to be, or their parents were.

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