Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#351

Post by tootie » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

kbart wrote: post #162

tootie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think there is most definitely a boundary between people with different opinions and people with opinions that are fundamentally at odds with living in a civilized society. "I don't like Goldman Sachs" is an opinion you can debate on its merits. "Kill all the Jew bankers" is not. The boundary is somewhere in between those two. I can't speak to the particular accounts banned by Twitter, but the alt right…

""I don't like Goldman Sachs" is an opinion you can debate on its merits. "Kill all the Jew bankers" is not. The boundary is somewhere in between those two." I don't agree. "Kill all the X" is a hate speech and, depending on context, a threat of violence -- we already have tools/laws to act against such, so there's no need for more censorship.

I'm giving it as an example of something unequivocal. There is a ton of equivocal hate speech and Trump and his supporters were a boundless font of subtle, implied hate speech that never quite said what everyone heard. What about statements like when Trump said "2nd amendment people" could stop Hillary? Or simply spreading disinformation to demonize minorities by saying he saw Muslims celebrating in NJ? Or the classic line of being pro-white instead of anti-minority ? None of that is illegal but it doesn't mean it deserves a free open forum.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#352

Post by ubertaco » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

woofyman wrote: post #323

jimmywanger wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All these bathroom laws do is make life harder for members of what is already a very marginalized group. I've had discussions with psychologists and trans people. This illustrates the disconnect we're seeing between the left and the public. Trans people are a vanishingly small proportion of the population, compared to the people who have lost jobs when their manufacturing jobs moved overseas. Worrying about their d…

It was conservatives who made a big deal over bathrooms by passing laws.

Try to step out of your own perspective and look at it from the other side.

I'm not asking you to agree with the other side, just to give it a fair shake before putting it down.

Consider the viewpoint of a parent of a young (10-year-old) child. That parent sends their 10-year-old daughter into the women's restroom. If that restroom can be legally entered by any person who is willing to say out loud "I feel like I am a woman", that restroom is open to any number of adult men who prey on children to enter.

Yes, this is the ever-present, sometimes-alarmist "who will think of the children" argument.

But being a tired argument doesn't make it an inaccurate or illegitimate one. If there is no answer given for it, then it remains valid, if eventually tiring to hear.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Post by orcdork » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:55 PM UTC

67726e wrote: post #346

orcdork wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behind on of the two tweets, there's a few hundrend years of slavery & oppression, based on race. Context is important. Edit: Why do I even bother. That same blog has the following snippet in another post: The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. It is to the long-term benefit of all Mankind to avoid killing them, or even adulterating them, through immigration,…

You realize that white Americans were not the only folks to own slaves or oppress a people, right? Ask yourself this, would the results be different if I tweeted that from the Barbary coast were roles were largely reversed? How about from a SLAVic nation?

And? This isn't a discussion on the slave trade. I was pointing out that the origin of the comment was by a biased source, which changes the context of the text to thinly veiled racism.

And by biased source, I mean a racist idiot promoting his shitty ideas.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Post by jsf666 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #253

leereeves wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the left seriously damaged their ability to fight racist ideas when they abandoned the idea of equality. Now, the left calls colorblindness and "all lives matter" racist. (Remember when Martin O'Malley was destroyed for saying that?) They create advantageous standards based on race, and even exclusive positions for non-white applicants. (For example, at the BBC.) And I too doubt they would object to "dedi…

This is a tired old argument, so let me just quote Daniel Victor: Those in the Black Lives Matter movement say black people are in immediate danger and need immediate attention, like the broken bone or house on fire. Saying “All Lives Matter” in response would suggest to them that all people are in equal danger, invalidating the specific concerns of black people. “You’re watering the house that’s not burning, but you…

The thing is the statistics show the blacks should address themselvs cause the biggest contributor to black deaths are other blacks. But as with everything evil whitey is at fault

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Post by jsf666 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #137

leereeves wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In truth this happens to all races. It does happen to black people somewhat more often, per capita, but 50% of people killed by police are white.

Mind, since ~70% of the US population is white, that does imply whites are less likely to be killed by the police. Predicting the likely response to this, of course, we get into the (surprisingly hard to accurately work out) question of what proportion of crimes are committed by people of various races, and to what extent that figure is manipulated by conscious / subconscious bias on the part of law enforcement. (It'…

> Mind, since ~70% of the US population is white, that does imply whites are less likely to be killed by the police.

The thing is most violent crime is commited by blacks even though they are about 13% of the population. So please don't act like evil cops just hunt them down for fun, that's the biggest gripe with BLM. They act like it's 1900 when that's just BS

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Post by olau » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

Cakez0r wrote: post #295

danudey wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom can include the freedom from harasment, which is a curtailing of speech. That's a liberal idea. The other alternative is 'let people say anything they want and they can just learn to deal with it', which doesn't work with e.g. death threats, harassment, etc. That's why one freedom might be more important than another. People who claim it's a negative are usually upset that they can't attack, belittle, or hara…

> Freedom can include the freedom from harasment I would argue that it can't. Freedom is the freedom to do things. "Freedom from x" is just another way of saying "you're not allowed to do x".

Problems arise because the world is inhabited by many humans.

One man's freedom may be another man's prison.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#357

Post by jsf666 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

glenda wrote: post #66

leereeves wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the left seriously damaged their ability to fight racist ideas when they abandoned the idea of equality. Now, the left calls colorblindness and "all lives matter" racist. (Remember when Martin O'Malley was destroyed for saying that?) They create advantageous standards based on race, and even exclusive positions for non-white applicants. (For example, at the BBC.) And I too doubt they would object to "dedi…

This is a very forgiving point of view. Institutional racism is real and because of that it can't be undone by just pretending everyone is equal all of the sudden. It is much more nuanced than you make it out to be. That being said, many of the people that twitter banned are just straight up racist and xenophoic/intolerant speech should not be protected.

>Institutional racism is real

Any evidence of this claim? Cause as an outsider to the US I see a black president and a lot of reversed-racism (affirmite action I think you ppl call it)

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Post by badlucklottery » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #203

badlucklottery wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm defending the alt-right's ability to use Twitter for expression and talk with themselves, and with people that have shown interest in their ideas I don't think this was an outright purge of the alt-right, just those they saw as ringleaders of abusive brigading. Alex Jones and other big names from that group are still out there doing their thing. >Twitter should be wielding the banhammer in an egalitarian fashion…

Here's where I get confused. Alex Jones is alt-right? He hates racists and Nazis.

That's a good point. He's anti-establishment which currently makes him very popular with the alt-right since they can rally around his conspiracy theories about democrats/Israel/whatever else they don't like. So not self-described alt-right but someone who has been lumped into that pile due to some of his views over the last few years.

Unrelated but I have a sneaking suspicion the alt-right will break with him anyway as soon as he starts focusing more and more on conspiracies about Trump.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#359

Post by mordocai » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #230

trhway wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from that your comment: >Homosexual partnerships, which are incapable of producing children, thus are of no benefit to the state, and can only be an unproductive diversion of funds which otherwise would be allocated to the benefit of heterosexual marriages which can and often do produce children. i think you're completely wrong here. Homosexual couples do adopt children and given the number of children in the foster…

> Homosexual couples do adopt children and given the number of children in the foster care [...] A commonly cited argument, to be sure. Let's look at the magnitude of its impact in practice. Per federal statistics, roughly five hundred thousand US children are in foster care, which is roughly two-thirds of a percent of children in the US, or six per thousand. Figures on the number of children adopted by homosexual co…

Why are you focusing on taxes? Current government marriage is too tied to religion anyway. Make all government "marriages" be civil unions, no tax breaks but all the legal advantages such as sharing insurance and not having to testify against each other etc (this is the main point of getting married currently IMHO). Then make having kids give you tax breaks.

This should sate the religious (they can have their marriage rules and do whatever they want they just wont have legal standing, we aren't calling the legal union a marriage anymore). It should also fix your issues.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#360

Post by fusiongyro » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 4:18 PM UTC

eutropia wrote: post #342

throwanem wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the argument I was making, you'd have a point. But it's not, although I can see how it would be misgathered as such. The essential difference I see isn't one of individual probability of parenthood, but of aggregate. Not all heterosexual couples rear children, true. But the likelihood of a randomly selected example rearing children is vastly higher than that for a randomly selected homosexual couple. Tha…

So instead of changing the tax code to be more specific (change the marriage tax benefits to child-rearing benefits) you're proposing we deny one of humanity's oldest and most important rituals (which means a lot to people intrinsically and symbolically, having just married my wife I know the feeling) to an entire group of people? Yeah I feel like you're post-rationalizing a gut feeling, because you didn't think too…

Going to the courthouse to do paperwork surely is not the oldest and most important ritual you're referring to, but that's the only part of it that the state has power over.