Don’t Mess with The Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#381

Post by lurker_level_53 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:15 PM UTC

peddicord wrote: post #158

brongondwana wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (FastMail) are really nice people :)

Does FastMail have any equivalent to Inbox (reminders/snoozing emails)? I started to migrate last month, got lazy when I realized how much I used those, and then I think my trial account lapsed. This article might scare me enough into trying again anyway, but if I can find any replacement for reminders (Fastmail or otherwise) that's as nice to use I'll jump over so fast.

https://notion.ai/features - Offers snooze until later

https://postbox-inc.com/features - Offers reminders (near bottom of page)

Both are email clients that should work. I don't use Fastmail, so I cannot comment for sure on that.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#382

Post by __Joker » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #368

smonff wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Google made us used to transform an email box as a storage and backup place is terrifying. Sending 2Mo attachments become a norm[1] and lots of people consider having their life stored there. It just seem not sustainable. If you would do this with paper in the past, your place would just be full of junk. Our cloud life is an horrific stack of garbage. We just don't need most of the things we store, keeping ev…

> [1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean This is ridiculous reasoning. The best (though imperfect) proxy for the climate impact of a given service is how much it costs. If Google is giving away the service for free, it can't be costin…

Also don't forget that We proxy pay google service with Ads. If you are paying something for free doesn't mean that there is no hidden costs.

Also, I am not sure to about drawing a correlation between cost and climate impact.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#383

Post by notheguyouthink » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

Yup, this is what i'm trying to avoid by backing up my life. The data storage mechanism is my hardest point.. I like Camlistore, but really i'd love something that is accessible from anywhere.

Eg, a distributed access system like IPFS, but for personal use only (closed network, as best possible) would be ideal. Including distributed though, it needs versioning like Camlistore.

Ultimately i'll just go with Camlistore and likely build tools around the access UX. It's the best i've found, without rewriting it myself (too much work for too little gain atm, imo)

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#384

Post by Doctor_Fegg » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:21 PM UTC

PuffinBlue wrote: post #356

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail killed their Family plan? Damn. I was going to move to them at the end of this year when my VM (where I currently run my mail) is up for renewal. But if I now need to buy several Standard plans instead, and get several gigabytes of storage I don't need, then that's less appealing. Runbox looks good. Any other suggested alternatives?

PloarisMail is pretty 'barebones' on the face of it but works well: https://www.polarismail.com/ Zoho is actually very good too but they (like Gmail) enforce IMAP connection limits, so it you have a lot of folders etc or use mobile clients like K9 that open a connection per folder then you can get errors very regularly. The above is true for Zoho on the free plans anyway, but it may be different for the paid ones. Bu…

Really helpful. Thanks.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#385

Post by kuschku » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

Whitestrake wrote: post #375

kuschku wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't matter is they are established before or after. Yes, it does, that’s the entire point. Will we still see as much innovation in 10, 20 years? For that, this part is very important. > The simple fact of bundling is not a problem when there are choices. Google forbids OEMs from selling custom Android forks. That’s not choice. As said, both the EU and US consider this anticompetitive, and are investigating i…

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Google does not license the Google Play Services to be bundled by OEMs who sell custom Android forks?

Not really, because Google also retroactively removes the license for devices already in production if the OEM later on decides to sell forked devices, as was threatened with Acer.

Or even just delivers parts for such a device, as was threatened with SAMSUNG and Amazon.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#386

Post by setq » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

notheguyouthink wrote: post #383

setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

Yup, this is what i'm trying to avoid by backing up my life. The data storage mechanism is my hardest point.. I like Camlistore, but really i'd love something that is accessible from anywhere. Eg, a distributed access system like IPFS, but for personal use only (closed network, as best possible) would be ideal. Including distributed though, it needs versioning like Camlistore. Ultimately i'll just go with Camlistore…

I really like the idea of Camlistore. But I really want something my family could actually handle if the worst came to the worst and that just happens to be bitlocker encrypted NTFS. Plug the stick in, plonk in a password and you have all my things.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#387

Post by Diederich » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:26 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #372

taneq wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously less trusting of your own ability to drop a bunch of documents onto a USB drive every week or few than you are of a company which explicitly tells you they can shut off your access with no warning and no recourse for any reason?

...yes? Because the likelyhood of Google banning your access is way lower than * Data corruption * House fires * Human error (Cleanup, house moves, random acts of brain farts, and suddenly you can't find your USB stick) Google's data is presumably replicated across multiple AZs, and they have more automation invested in data integrity.

This is, I believe, the correct analysis.

I am personally/professionally qualified to keep my data extremely safe and distributed. It's one of the things I do at work, at scale. But it's not easy. It is, after all, work. I don't have to worry about that using Google and other online services.

And, in order to mitigate against the extremely unlikely event of Google going haywire and perma-deactiviating my account, I run takeouts twice a month. These large data dumps don't need to be heavily redundant, since it's exceedingly unlikely I'll need them at all.

Granted, going from a takeout backup back to 80% functionality would be a ton of work, but I'd lose very little, and I could indeed become functional again in relatively short order.

I wonder if people who decide to ditch most things Google/cloud for no other reason than concern about the risk of said cloud providers terminating their access have truly considered the risk/reward. Bad news, like specific cases of 'unjust/surprising' account termination percolates up to wide visibility quickly and easily, and stays with the people who read such things a long time. The hundreds of millions of accounts that have no such problems escape our attention.

I don't know the odds of my Google account getting terminated, but I'm pretty certain that it's in the same magnitude as the number of people winning the lottery per year.

Having said that, there are a lot of other good reasons to think about ditching cloud providers.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#388

Post by setq » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

SonicSoul wrote: post #374

setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

thanks for posting this cautionary tale. I am completely dependent on Google today so if that happened i'd be F'd. Will look into exporting all my emails this weekend. But why was Google unable to re-instate you? Was it because you had no way to prove your identity to them? Were you able to reach anyone? for those in similar situation you can back up your email/calendar here: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeo…

Contacting Google support, unless you're an Apps customer which I wasn't, is a complete waste of time. Unless you can, to quote a colleague, piss through the eye of a needle, when it comes to the security questions and details then you can't even get over the first hurdle.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#389

Post by 7Z7 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #176

ryandrake wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up the sarcasm immediately but it's scary how many times I've been told (HERE, on HN of all places) that it's impossible to live a normal life without Facebook. As in: literally, with a straight face someone would claim they would have no contact with friends if not for Facebook and be totally serious about it. Kind of unbelievable but I've heard it multiple times.

i mean facebook gives you the means to provide alternate contact points(phone numbers) to your friends. people don't choose to use it coz of whatever reason deserve to be cut off-why wouldn't you want your friends phone numbers in your phone?

is this sarcasm again?

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#390

Post by notheguyouthink » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

setq wrote: post #386

notheguyouthink wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is what i'm trying to avoid by backing up my life. The data storage mechanism is my hardest point.. I like Camlistore, but really i'd love something that is accessible from anywhere. Eg, a distributed access system like IPFS, but for personal use only (closed network, as best possible) would be ideal. Including distributed though, it needs versioning like Camlistore. Ultimately i'll just go with Camlistore…

I really like the idea of Camlistore. But I really want something my family could actually handle if the worst came to the worst and that just happens to be bitlocker encrypted NTFS. Plug the stick in, plonk in a password and you have all my things.

What would prevent Camlistore from the same model? I guess if you're gone, the server might not be running properly, and they wouldn't know how to start it and etc. Ya?

That's fair. I wonder if it would be worth it to write some type of camlistore extraction tool. Eg, plug in a USB, autoruns a script which mounts a blob store as a fuse FS.

Hell, the blob store could be packed with the USB.. a sort of way to backup Camlistore that your family can always access. I actually like that idea. Fuse may not be a good access model (it's tied to unix of course), but maybe just a couple binaries that will auto run and display the stored camlistore blobstore.

Sounds like a nifty project and nifty way to backup camlistore for family/non-tech oriented. No servers needed, no understanding of the tech you use. As fool-proof as you can make it.

Thoughts on this related to your model?