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Don’t Mess with The Google

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Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#311

Post by cowl »

kuschku wrote: post #284
cowl wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key word here is "phones". 85% of phones is still less than half of all users seeing as mobile just surpassed desktop use sometime in 2015. And no, producer rights are not affecting consumer rights since this is a free market. I don't care how many Russian search engines or vertical product marketeers go out of business. They are going out of business because they are not offering a good enough service and I don't wa…

> If google had the power you are fear-mongering about we would not have FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. All of them were started before Google even started competing with them. Show me a company started after Google had already established a presence in a market that’s either competing with Google (and having a positive prediction) or that has thrown Google out of the market at all.

it doesn't matter is they are established before or after. all it matters is that users have the choice and choosing these (and other) products over the Google provided ones. Google has bundled a form of messenger app since forever with its services. People just keep choosing other better ones. Google has tried 2-3 time to break into the social scene but even though Google Buzz was bundled with gmail it was not used. although everyone with the gmail account had a G+ account it is not even close to FB or Twitter. The simple fact of bundling is not a problem when there are choices. Amazon even takes Android, takes out EVERY SINGLE REFERENCE to google services and uses it for it's own products. So android can not be considered in any form monopolistic because it offers choices does not block them.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#312

Post by smonff »

setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

The way Google made us used to transform an email box as a storage and backup place is terrifying. Sending 2Mo attachments become a norm[1] and lots of people consider having their life stored there.

It just seem not sustainable. If you would do this with paper in the past, your place would just be full of junk. Our cloud life is an horrific stack of garbage. We just don't need most of the things we store, keeping everything as proof of evidences for a potential event that will surely never happen, as if we were all super important targets of an improbable crime scene.

I hate this ideology. Thinking about getting out of it is perfectly sane.

[1] Yes I know storage is cheap, but then forget about ecology and climate change control, I have no proof of this but can't believe that all the Google servers of the world don't have an impact, even if it seems quite clean

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#313

Post by kuschku »

cowl wrote: post #311
kuschku wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If google had the power you are fear-mongering about we would not have FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. All of them were started before Google even started competing with them. Show me a company started after Google had already established a presence in a market that’s either competing with Google (and having a positive prediction) or that has thrown Google out of the market at all.

it doesn't matter is they are established before or after. all it matters is that users have the choice and choosing these (and other) products over the Google provided ones. Google has bundled a form of messenger app since forever with its services. People just keep choosing other better ones. Google has tried 2-3 time to break into the social scene but even though Google Buzz was bundled with gmail it was not used.…

> it doesn't matter is they are established before or after.

Yes, it does, that’s the entire point.

Will we still see as much innovation in 10, 20 years? For that, this part is very important.

> The simple fact of bundling is not a problem when there are choices.

Google forbids OEMs from selling custom Android forks. That’s not choice.

As said, both the EU and US consider this anticompetitive, and are investigating it. If you believe you – which apparantly are unable to use correct orthography – are more knowledged than the top lawyers of the two largest economies, then, sure, go on.

Even Google has admitted they are doing anticompetitive bundling, their defense is that it’s required to fund Android at all. That alone should say everything.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#314

Post by setq »

smonff wrote: post #297
Rotareti wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I stick to OSS like Linux, Thunderbird, nextcloud, etc. as much as possible. I got locked into a closed source platform once and it was a pain to get out of it. I will never let it happen again.

Self storage is fine but does it guaranty long term documents safety? I am very sceptical about my ability of maintaining it on the long term.

This is usually a difficult problem. Then I divided everything I have data-wise into two buckets: stuff I can't afford to lose, stuff I can. It's now simple. Also I mandate that 'everything is a file'.

Turns out the former is only around 22Gb of mainly code, documents, videos and photos. The latter is 250Gb of music, films etc.

The latter goes on a NAS with a mirror on the laptop.

The important stuff lives on the laptop protected by bitlocker, an encrypted USB stick protected by bitlocker that is on me 24/7, the NAS and another offline unencrypted USB stick that I drop off at my parents' and cycle every six months. All disks are replaced every three years. All USB sticks once a year.

All file transfers are done with Beyond Compare by hand and verified after.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#315

Post by whyagaindavid »

Figs wrote: post #280
whyagaindavid wrote: post #183

1. Why is everyone here condoning the act of these people to make _extra_ money? 2. If you are doing such shady stuff create a new Gmail account and do it

Regarding question 1: (1) Because the First Sale Doctrine is supposed to give people the right to resell their legally acquired goods. Retaliating against people who resell something they paid for already is extremely bad form on Google's part, even if they have found a tortuous way to legally do so. (2) Regardless of whether Google was justified or legally within their rights to do so, cutting off people's email wit…

Thanks for (1). BTW, if it makes business sense for the folks to resell mainly for profit; google can also retaliate in a way they like to respond. This is like tax-evasion - if you find better accountants/tax-consultants you do better than your govt. In principle -> these people tried to outsmart Google -> and got outsmarted.

Not that I am justifying Google's actions.

For (2) I look at it from a different point of view. I am glad that Google did not cut email for some random Joe - just using a random-number-generator. Only those that did something which _may_ be hurting their business. please note, I am not supporting G totally.

> What if next they decide that they don't want to continue offering email service to people who bought an iPhone instead of an Android?

But what is your problem then? If they do not offer please move away. It is the same with apple; unless you have a _actual_ apple hardware you cant open appleID or even watch apple live product launches.

While I am not condoning Google or apple, it is how they want to do business.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#316

Post by setq »

smonff wrote: post #312
setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

The way Google made us used to transform an email box as a storage and backup place is terrifying. Sending 2Mo attachments become a norm[1] and lots of people consider having their life stored there. It just seem not sustainable. If you would do this with paper in the past, your place would just be full of junk. Our cloud life is an horrific stack of garbage. We just don't need most of the things we store, keeping ev…

Good points there.

I tend to delete lots of things people might keep. I keep my inbox empty as well. Life is easier that way rather than deferring all the storage decisions later.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#317

Post by whyagaindavid »

dingo_bat wrote: post #114

Wait you have to have a Google account just to order a pixel phone? How dumb would you have to be to do that when you're doing shady reselling deals? But this is why I distrust any online transaction that cannot be done without a guest account unless there's some solid reason. There's no such reason for buying a phone.

100 % agree. They tried to outsmart Google and got outsmarted!

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#318

Post by sundvor »

brongondwana wrote: post #294
staticelf wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify what this means: "Flexible tamper-proof data retention policies with unlimited archiving space" - from the pricing page. I am considering to switch to Fastmail, seems nice!

At a techinical level it means we take a copy of each incoming and outgoing (assuming you send via our web interface or via our SMTP servers) email and dump them into a separate folder in a separate account on our server which your admin accounts get a READ-ONLY ACL to, so you can see the messages, but can't remove them or modify them. Unlimited is a bit buzzwordy, because we do have sending and receiving rate limits…

That's awesome. I've just gone through setting up my domain account and it was a slick experience. Neat 2FA authentication etc. Proud to see you're Melbourne based as myself, too.

PS. I hope no-one reads your post now and takes it as "challenge accepted". :-)

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#320

Post by TheGrumpyBrit »

joe563323 wrote: post #279
Rotareti wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I stick to OSS like Linux, Thunderbird, nextcloud, etc. as much as possible. I got locked into a closed source platform once and it was a pain to get out of it. I will never let it happen again.

And for email ?

I have a DigitalOcean droplet running Postfix, which provides edge security and a private IP, but no storage. All my mail is routed through this droplet across a VPN to my home Exchange server. Exchange backups are encrypted and stored on Amazon Cloud Drive. Yes, there's a reliance on cloud services for backup storage, but the only time I'd need the offsite backup is if my home servers both became unavailable for some reason. I'm happy with taking the chance that, if that happens, it won't happen at the same time as Amazon closing my Cloud Drive account.

I admit though, this is probably over the top for most people. I do it because email is my job, so it's useful to have my own servers for testing stuff.

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