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Re: undefined

#71

Post by kirykl »

digler999 wrote: post #64
kirykl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of a near miss that are indeed part of the design: - third wheel spins that change visuals/audio to enhance anticipation of landing that last needed symbol - symbols that look very close to eachother - symbols that appear to be stopping then move at the last moment - bonus wheels with false probabilities, or fake-out stops at high value slices - pre-determined picking on features

Do you think there is a difference between a probabilistic near-miss - say, being dealt 4/5 cards to a royal - and a machine that already decided you lost and in attempt to tempt you, grabs 4/5 to a royal and shows them to you knowing full well you wont win ?

Not to the user. The internals are a black box, and what's presented is taken at face value. But

In poker the user might expect the presentation to be based on probability (52 choose 5) and the 2nd example would result in more near misses than expected, exploiting the effect of a near miss. In slots there's not really such an expectation rooted in probability beyond what the machine presents on screen

Re: undefined

#72

Post by Forbo »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #46
imroot wrote: post #43

There's a really good book about the design of the slot machines, called Addiction by Design. It talks about the different UI and design elements that go into keeping the gambler engaged and why they keep spending more money. It's a really amazing and enlightening book to read if you're interested in learning more about the mechanics of the slot machines and the designs of the casino. https://www.amazon.com/Addiction…

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

Change that to opening a box of boosters. Same thing. "Open package, sporadically receive reward."

Re: undefined

#73

Post by kejaed »

mikestew wrote: post #60
arrosenberg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber This is the 101 explanation of the science at work. It's basically a conditioned response to dopamine caused by pulling the lever. At it's most basic level, if you are gambler, you pull the lever and get a neurotransmitter reward.

See also: training my dogs. It is even referred to by some as turning training "into a slot machine". At first one rewards the dog every time they do what was asked. Later, the rewards are only sporadically given (the slot machine). You do a thing, maybe some coins or a piece of meat will come out. But the dog will continue to do what was asked even as the treats taper off. Eventually, out of habit and conditioning,…

The latest episode of the Tim Ferriss show is a 2 hour interview with a Susan Garrett, a dog trainer and agility competitor. As a dog owner and someone who as gone through some dog training, and also as a new parent to a human puppy, I found it quite interesting and thought you might too.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/11/14/susan-garrett/

Re: undefined

#74

Post by fapjacks »

Forbo wrote: post #72
pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

Change that to opening a box of boosters. Same thing. "Open package, sporadically receive reward."

Immediately, your point comes across.

Re: undefined

#75

Post by john_reel »

enqk wrote: post #16
noname123 wrote: post #12

Great article. I have a Internet addiction and this is eerily similar. Like slot machines that pump random awards and chance into slot user, I feel the surge of social approval and dopamine rush too when I get a Reddit upvote, a Facebook Like, IG comment, Tumblr reblog etc. Also like how gambling addicts get into a "zombie flow-state" when they're one with the machine, I feel the same way scrolling through pages afte…

You are not alone. I feel the same way every now and then. The most obvious sign is when I catch myself typing the URL of the website I just opened right there again at the top. And then I go through my habits and get better internet hygiene. One such thing that helped was setting time limits or when I switched for instance to using Google Reader. Unfortunately google killed it, so I was lost for a while. Another tri…

Can you explain how you set that up?

Re: undefined

#76

Post by lujim »

tunap wrote: post #61
lujim wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I'm not a mental health professional or a physician and had to google "reciditivism" which appears to be a reversion into criminal behavior which is maybe a fancy word for relapse I guess. You are saying that medicine used to treat psychological or behavior deficiencies is of little or no value? Don't you think the shared knowledge of acquaintances is kind of anecdotal? If we are using anecdotes then I would ad…

I didn'y say pharmaceuticals are of little or no value, I said recidivist rates for alcohol & opium addiction are upwards of 90%. If a chemical imbalance causes harmful behaviors, then yes, pharmacology can be a lifesaver. My experience is admittedly anecdotal and should not be taken any other way. People who deal with addicts regularly(doctors, LEOs, therapists and family members) will have their own anecdotes, and…

Ahh gotcha. Yes alcohol and opium are tough to keep people away from. Chantix worked the first time and within just a day or two made smoking a cigarette completely devoid of any pleasure. Zero problems with dreams.

The biggest epiphany you get from quitting smoking is realizing that cigarettes aren't inherently pleasurable, smoking one just removes the symptoms from nicotine withdrawal in a way that other nicotine replacements can't. While everyone seems conceptually know this, it's surprisingly hard to really get it to sink into your own brain. Truly understanding/believing that combined to a round of Chantix took care of things for good.

Re: undefined

#77

Post by kirykl »

tunap wrote: post #69
jfoutz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

funny thing about addiction. I agree that in the beginning it's a choice. But i think every event biases the choice a little bit. So, if it's go to the movies or go gambling, the first time around it's a 50/50 split. then next time around it's a 40/60 split, the next time around 20/80 split. Clearly the rate of bias modification curves vary from person to person. That, in and of itself isn't bad, nothing wrong with a…

Good thing toothpaste isn't addictive... hope the Crest folk aren't reading this. Very good point, though. I was lucky, I had several positive experiences in a short time period and could rationalize my decision to desist. I have failed repeatedly to mirror that experience with my other addictions, cigs and sex. * * More so than just getting a lot, I was missing work, foregoing important events and losing sleep to en…

This does make me wonder why there's not an AM and PM toothpaste sub category. AM toothpaste with caffeine and PM with some type of mild sedative. They could double sales

Re: undefined

#78

Post by kelvin0 »

noname123 wrote: post #12

Great article. I have a Internet addiction and this is eerily similar. Like slot machines that pump random awards and chance into slot user, I feel the surge of social approval and dopamine rush too when I get a Reddit upvote, a Facebook Like, IG comment, Tumblr reblog etc. Also like how gambling addicts get into a "zombie flow-state" when they're one with the machine, I feel the same way scrolling through pages afte…

If you want to watch something to spook you out of your 'social media' approval ratings, watch this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5497778/

It's an episode of the Series 'Black Mirror'. Well worth the watch.

Re: undefined

#79

Post by mikestew »

kejaed wrote: post #73
mikestew wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: training my dogs. It is even referred to by some as turning training "into a slot machine". At first one rewards the dog every time they do what was asked. Later, the rewards are only sporadically given (the slot machine). You do a thing, maybe some coins or a piece of meat will come out. But the dog will continue to do what was asked even as the treats taper off. Eventually, out of habit and conditioning,…

The latest episode of the Tim Ferriss show is a 2 hour interview with a Susan Garrett, a dog trainer and agility competitor. As a dog owner and someone who as gone through some dog training, and also as a new parent to a human puppy, I found it quite interesting and thought you might too. http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/11/14/susan-garrett/

Thanks for something different for my workday listening. As an owner of two knucklehead pit bulls, and a volunteer trainer at the local shelter, I'm a sucker for more dog training porn.

The training will probably come in handy for the human pup, too. As I watched the one set of friends who would tolerate a comparison between their offspring and dogs, and how they raised their kids, they probably got tired of me pointing out, "oh, so it's just like training dogs..". :-) I wish my old man was a little more into that whole "positive training" thing.

Re: undefined

#80

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #51

Figure out how to repurpose this technology to make web sites and apps "sticky", and profit. To see some of this technology in action, try "freeslots.com". This site has simulated reel-type slot machines, done quite well. The site has been around for years, but it's now HTML5 instead of Java-based. The payout ratio for the different machines varies; some have a positive payout ratio. If you get a modest number of cre…

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