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Re: undefined

#41

Post by ikeboy »

tomjen3 wrote: post #38
ikeboy wrote: post #22

I wouldn't be against a law that prevented people from gambling large amounts of money unless they could prove the money was theirs. (ETA: whew, a quadruple negative.) The IRS could provide a form that confirmed that someone reported X amount of income, and you should only be allowed to gamble X-Y for some nominal value of Y. This wouldn't be that hard to enforce (the time isn't too significant when you're dealing wi…

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowe…

> Should we ban or limit alcohol to some nominal amount? If not, why should we treat gambling differently?

No, because nobody steals $4 million to buy alcohol. Alcoholics don't tend to be spending anywhere near the numbers in OP.

Even if nominal was 0, the proposal would still prevent stealing or borrowed money being gambled. It's not an essential part of the proposal.

If tax authorities are overlooking theft being gambled because they get a cut, then incentives have not been lined up properly. Theft causes a negative externality greater than the thief's gain, so society should not want theft, and if it does then there's a problem.

Re: undefined

#42

Post by ikeboy »

sanswork wrote: post #34
ikeboy wrote: post #22

I wouldn't be against a law that prevented people from gambling large amounts of money unless they could prove the money was theirs. (ETA: whew, a quadruple negative.) The IRS could provide a form that confirmed that someone reported X amount of income, and you should only be allowed to gamble X-Y for some nominal value of Y. This wouldn't be that hard to enforce (the time isn't too significant when you're dealing wi…

What happens when I show up from overseas to gamble? How do I prove I am from overseas and not just someone that isn't bringing their IRS form?

Passport? I guess this would be hard to regulate, but even if foreigners were excluded from the regulation my proposal would still help some people.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by imroot »

There's a really good book about the design of the slot machines, called Addiction by Design. It talks about the different UI and design elements that go into keeping the gambler engaged and why they keep spending more money. It's a really amazing and enlightening book to read if you're interested in learning more about the mechanics of the slot machines and the designs of the casino.

https://www.amazon.com/Addiction-Design-Machine-Gambling-Veg...

Re: undefined

#44

Post by Kenji »

grzm wrote: post #40
Kenji wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a bank before, throughout and after the 2008 financial crisis. That bank wouldn't have dared to give a broke and jobless person a loan, not a penny. Unless there are good reasons to assume it can be paid back, like securities in the form of a house or shares.

I know of banks that wouldn't have approved loans like that, either. However, some banks did, and made money doing so. Many banks don't keep the loans they approve on their own books.

Many banks don't keep the loans they approve on their own books.

That is dirty, dirty business. Giving out loans that will never be paid back, bundling them up and selling an opaque package full of risks. They said that was a big part of what started the crisis. I'm glad I wasn't part of that.

Re: undefined

#45

Post by SilasX »

tomjen3 wrote: post #38
ikeboy wrote: post #22

I wouldn't be against a law that prevented people from gambling large amounts of money unless they could prove the money was theirs. (ETA: whew, a quadruple negative.) The IRS could provide a form that confirmed that someone reported X amount of income, and you should only be allowed to gamble X-Y for some nominal value of Y. This wouldn't be that hard to enforce (the time isn't too significant when you're dealing wi…

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowe…

Why would tax authorities be happy to capture the tax on a few percent of illicit earnings rather than be able to take down a big RICO evader?

Re: undefined

#46

Post by pavel_lishin »

imroot wrote: post #43

There's a really good book about the design of the slot machines, called Addiction by Design. It talks about the different UI and design elements that go into keeping the gambler engaged and why they keep spending more money. It's a really amazing and enlightening book to read if you're interested in learning more about the mechanics of the slot machines and the designs of the casino. https://www.amazon.com/Addiction…

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results.

I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

Re: undefined

#47

Post by grzm »

Kenji wrote: post #44
grzm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of banks that wouldn't have approved loans like that, either. However, some banks did, and made money doing so. Many banks don't keep the loans they approve on their own books.

Many banks don't keep the loans they approve on their own books. That is dirty, dirty business. Giving out loans that will never be paid back, bundling them up and selling an opaque package full of risks. They said that was a big part of what started the crisis. I'm glad I wasn't part of that.

Yup. I completely agree. And there were a lot of steps in the chain. As I understand it, it wasn't the issuing banks that were doing the bundling: they just sold the loans to other financial service companies. Given the amount of money and the fact that a lot of them effectively got away with it, from their point of view it was good business.

This is an example of situations where I see arguments along the lines of "it was legal, so it wasn't wrong". Grr...

Re: undefined

#48

Post by italian_donald »

humbleMouse wrote: post #10
italian_donald wrote: post #8

Casinos enable gambling Addicts in the same way that legalized weed enables drug addicts.

I don't think that's a fair analogy at all. Care to expand on it?

I was down voted to -3, so why should I expand anything? I should have know that the HN crowd loves its drugs and will not listen to facts and reason.

Re: undefined

#49

Post by tunap »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #28
komon wrote: post #2

A really great short documentary on this subject is Louis Theroux's "Gambling in Las Vegas". His frank manner really cuts to the core of not only the length to which addicts will justify gambling but also to the lengths to which the casino employees justify their enabling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJRYUZbxwyA

Thanks for sharing—my family was ripped apart due to my father's unbridled gambling. Although it's conceivable that casinos play their part in motivating people to gamble, much of the addiction is a battle within the individuals.

Absolutely an individual choice. Why someone chooses to continue to detriment is an infinte pool of rationalizations.

I did it for the entertainment & group inclusion(poker). I justified it as I didn't lose $200, I paid for several(sometimes many) hours of entertainment. Then one time I ran out of time while I was up several hundred. The next time was again time constrained and I walked w/ $700.* The last time I met an old friend I haen't sen in 15 years and we blew our cash on drinks talking about old times. I figure I'll never be this close to even ever again so I haven't played again in 9 years.

*I'm still way behind, but figure the odds of recouping more are stacked against me.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by billmalarky »

"Richardson’s employer, Colombo Candy & Tobacco Wholesale. Richardson, the company’s controller, embezzled $4.1 million over the course of two years to support her gambling addiction. (In 2014, Richardson, then 54, was sentenced to 14 to 20 years in prison for the crime.) The thefts ultimately put the company out of business."

So a company based on exploiting human addiction caused another company based on exploiting human addiction to go out of business. I can just barely hear the world's tiniest violin playing the saddest song for them.

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