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Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

nytimes.com

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#131

Post by Pokepokalypse »

dariusm5 wrote: post #23

Considering that American's trust in mainstream media is an all time low [1], I'm sure there is a big demand for alternative news. I'm not surprised people are looking for content that fits their narrative and end up reading fake articles. As someone observing from Mexico, I noticed almost all of the mainstream US media became an echo chamber for pro-Clinton content. I only realized this after after seeing how Sander…

You're not wrong about the pro-Clinton content. I'm politically liberal, so I've kind of sheltered myself from the rightwing stuff. A couple of weeks ago, I started looking at it, after some conversations with some trump supporters. I was completely floored. I remember the situation in 2000, and 2004, and there was a lot of crazy stuff particularly from FoxNews, and commentators like Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Dinesh Dsouza, and others. In 2008, even MORE wacky wacky whackjobs like Glenn Beck and Michael Wiener (Savage).

But now, there seems to be a whole slew: hundreds of these weird little websites out there, generating crazy crazy fake news, sharing them around, and disseminating them, for the purpose of gaining ad-revenue from gullible conservatives. The side effect is something like a palm-oil land-clearing project, where a whole forest gets burned down, and everyone downwind is choking on the smoke and ash.

I think this is because of the corrosive effect of money in politics. So many billions of dollars going into political ads. So many very conservative elites, investing in major media channels and directing editorial content. Causing a major collapse in credibility of ALL major news networks, which creates an ecosystem for these little sites to pop up.

The problem is all the seriously delusional people who believe these stories about muslims marching to YOUR neighborhood to demand sharia law, and Hillary Clinton being a secret KKK member.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#132

Post by lake99 »

Veen wrote: post #76
MK999 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 Trump hit pieces in one day alone. More like establishment propaganda paper, I don't think they would have given Jeb Bush or Rubio such a hard time.

Would you have liked them balanced with 12 pro-Trump pieces or 12 anti-Hillary pieces? Sometimes things are true. Saying they're true isn't bias. It makes no sense to have "balance" when what that means is publishing a non-true thing in order to balance out the true thing you just said. It's true that Donald Trump is lying, feckless fool. That doesn't need balancing. We can argue all day about why people voted for hi…

> It's true that Donald Trump is lying, feckless fool.

Lying? Sure. Feckless fool? Not a fact.

> But that doesn't really change the facts.

You mean, facts like Hillary arming radicals and destroying governments? Or facts like Clinton getting millions of dollars from major banks? Or facts like Clinton wiping email servers? There were floodlights on the liar, but a crook sneaked in behind them. Rampant editorializing drove people away from the media. People suspected a collusion between media houses and the Clinton campain. Wikileaks confirmed those suspicions. What do they do? CNN tell its viewers that it's illegal to read or download stuff from Wikileaks.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#133

Post by 6stringmerc »

randomgyatwork wrote: post #75
heurist wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook can do whatever it wants. Personally, if facebook does not stop the spread of false information I will stop using their services and will do my best to convince my friends to stop using their services. If they want to create harmful social bubbles for profit that's their prerogative, but I won't be part of it.

If you use facebook, you've been in a harmful social bubble since the beginning.... you are only realizing it now

In my experience, Facebook in 2016 is akin to what AOL was in 1994 - to a large swath of people, Facebook is essentially "the internet" they use. Kind of subscribing to cable TV but only watching one station. It's not too far out of the realm of thought that bubbles exist because people seek them out and like having a bubble (notions of bubbles being good/bad outside the scope of this).

For a while early on, I recall enjoying Facebook when it was .edu email addresses only, because it was a good way to keep tabs on people I went to upper education with and parted ways with shortly after. It was a nice contact resource in that regard. Now the platform is a behemoth, the AOL thing.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#134

Post by mc32 »

wavefunction wrote: post #55
a_humean wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

Hillary also was resistant to the $15 minimum wage which would make a _huge_ difference for a lot of folks in the countryside. Hillary of course wanted to treat them like second-class citizens with only a $12 minimum. Who's going to go read white-papers after that sort of offer?

Personally, I think the minimum wage as it exists isn't very useful. I'd replace it with a federal base level minimum wage where the local (county) minimum wage is composed of the base federal + COLA (which gets reevaluated yearly, like SS.) and it'd apply to all workers, public, private, local, state, federal.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#135

Post by pault »

newdayrising wrote: post #16

If Hillary won this wouldn't have been an issue for the NYT. Close to the election I repeatedly saw articles comparing Trump to Hitler and predicting the end of free society of he were to win. The only fake news I saw was satirical "news." I did not vote for Trump, but it's crazy how hysterical and witch-hunty the left is right now.

I tend to agree with you, but in the days after the election several of my acquaintances witnessed hate crimes accompanied by Trump slogans. This, along with the surge in reports of hate crimes in the media, tells me that this isn't just a repeat of 2000.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#136

Post by EdiX »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #117
EdiX wrote: post #87

reporters have found that the spread of false news is far more common on the right than it is on the left Citation needed.

"A recent BuzzFeed News analysis of giant hyperpartisan Facebook pages found that 38% of posts on conservative pages and 19% of posts on liberal pages featured false or misleading content." https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/partisan-fb-pages-an... From https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/can-facebook-trendin...

Well, I didn't know buzzfeed bloggers counted as reporters, I stand corrected.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#137

Post by Pokepokalypse »

brightball wrote: post #101
wavefunction wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillary also was resistant to the $15 minimum wage which would make a _huge_ difference for a lot of folks in the countryside. Hillary of course wanted to treat them like second-class citizens with only a $12 minimum. Who's going to go read white-papers after that sort of offer?

The $15 minimum wage would have devastated the countryside. I'm all over something like a minimum basic income that would effectively do the same thing as doubling the minimum wage, without putting the cost burden on businesses that can't afford it. The perk of a national $15 minimum wage is to remove any incentive US only businesses that may consider relocating to less expensive parts of the country. I'm sure it see…

The problem with a straight-up $15 minwage is that it goes against what is becoming a huge force in this country: inequality. Minwage is meant to somewhat try to address inequality. But in fact, the difference between rural and urban cost of living is huge. So minwage needs to be sensitive to this.

The issue really needs to be completely depoliticized, and the minimum wage should really be set to some kind of local/regional indicator, and indexed to inflation.

But if we did that... politicians wouldn't get to flip this card out every 10 years to play it.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#139

Post by rdtsc »

dariusm5 wrote: post #23

Considering that American's trust in mainstream media is an all time low [1], I'm sure there is a big demand for alternative news. I'm not surprised people are looking for content that fits their narrative and end up reading fake articles. As someone observing from Mexico, I noticed almost all of the mainstream US media became an echo chamber for pro-Clinton content. I only realized this after after seeing how Sander…

> I noticed almost all of the mainstream US media became an echo chamber for pro-Clinton content.

I like media in general and thinking how it is used to control and manipulate people. Especially the idea of the illusion of freedom. I've always recommended Manufacturing Consent by Herman and Chomsky.

That analyzes how corporatist media is used to manipulate and control public opinion, and I think at not time has it been truer than in the last election cycle. CNN's Cuomo "these documents are illegal to look at, let us interpret them for you" is such a wonderful example of it. I love it. (sorry everyone, I've mentioned that multiple times).

There is a new twist here and that is social media. I wonder what they'd have to say about that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#140

Post by barrkel »

jimbokun wrote: post #90
ThomPete wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about making the case that it did happen because of misinformation instead of focusing on my comment history? I have said a lot of things on both sides and is hardly just some troll. We all have our triggers, this is one for me so whats wrong with that?

Because you arguing that rampant misinformation is not a threat to a well functioning democracy is so manifestly nihilistic and trollish there's really no point in even discussing it further.

There's a lot of people in denial that there is a genuine grievance at the heart of voting for Trump.

People who voted for him are not all misinformed racist sexist delusional hicks. There's too many of them to all be fooled. Many of them voted for Obama last time; the numbers make that clear.

Denial is the biggest thing I see in the US media right now, and it's worrying. Because it will probably lead to opposition to the symptom (Trump), rather than the cause (what motivated people to vote for him), and will promote internal opposition. It brings heat, not light.

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