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Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 122 posts

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#51
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Tesla's whole philosophy, I think, was to get people to buy their cars simply because it's a better car, not for any environmental reasons. Oil prices will affect them, but can't destroy them

Oh, come on. A major reason people buy Tesla vehicles because they "want to do their part" for the environment.

Anytime oh come on I prepare myself for evidence backed statements ....jk

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#52
post #19

He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources: "It should be the goal of the American people and their government to achieve energy independence as soon as possible. Energy independence means exploring and developing every possible energy source including wind, solar, nuclear and bio-fuels. A thriving market system will allow consumers to determine the best sources of energy for future consumption." Fro…

> He doesn't seem totally opposed to renewable energy sources:

He has a professional climate change denier[1] being trial-ballooned to run the EPA.

I think of all the question marks about Trumps seriousness and commitment to specific policy areas (and there are lots -- the guy is a blank slate), environmental issues are the least uncertain. The guy is a straight up head-in-the-sand opponent of anything that looks or smells like it might be one of those hippie "clean" things.

[1] Literally! Myron Ebell's day job is to write papers for a conservative think tank "debunking" climate science.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#53
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas would have to be really cheap in order to beat spot prices for solar on sunny days, especially in the southwest. It's still good for peaker plants though. Coal, on the other hand, I don't see being profitable unless Congress starts taxing solar directly, since it still can't beat solar spot prices and it's categorically unprofitable to run coal plants as peakers.

If we harvest Methane Hydrate deposits undersea and pipe them into coastal cities, then natural gas could become essentially free. That would be hard to beat.

You have a cite for that? Gas is extraordinarily transportable already. If this were true, we'd be sucking those deposits already and shipping or pipelining the LNG already.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#54
post #41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

> it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for because it really depends on the day and time and situation since he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him. I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance. He isn't talking to the media, he's talking around them.

Agreed. I don't think he has any discernible political position. That would be too constraining. He's a salesmen and a deal maker. He's going to say what he needs to get support, then make hay while the sun shines. He and Musk will get along fine. They're peers. If there's a way to make money, increase economic growth, or otherwise trade the currency of Musk's brand, Trump will totally use it imo. Then he'll explain why it's the right thing to do to his followers and they'll be all in.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#56
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas would have to be really cheap in order to beat spot prices for solar on sunny days, especially in the southwest. It's still good for peaker plants though. Coal, on the other hand, I don't see being profitable unless Congress starts taxing solar directly, since it still can't beat solar spot prices and it's categorically unprofitable to run coal plants as peakers.

If we harvest Methane Hydrate deposits undersea and pipe them into coastal cities, then natural gas could become essentially free. That would be hard to beat.

Under your definition of "free", aren't current forms of natural gas "free"? Or any other form of hydrocarbon mining?

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#57
post #20

If Tesla’s not competitive, then it’s not competitive. I’m glad to see the government involvement being reduced. Let the free market handle things.

You clearly don't have a basic understanding of the issues here. Cars that use gas incur the additional penalty of environmental damage that is unaccounted for in the value of those vehicles relative to their cost. For example, a gas car may cost $1000, and bring $1500 of value to the owner, but incur $200 of damage to the environment. This is not priced into the value of the car. If you want to learn more you can read the first few chapters of an introductory economics textbook where they cover market failure.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#58

I think Tesla will do okay, they've got a solid product that stands on its own. What I'm worried about is rooftop solar tiles. One of the thing that can make it cheaper than a traditional roof is that the whole thing will qualify for solar subsidies. If that goes away it could make things incredibly difficult for Solar City.

I guess it depends on whether you think that net metering is a subsidy and whose eyes are beholding the payments. Those tiles are generating electricity, why shouldn't they get paid same as large generators?

My understanding is that the extra complexity of the network to support a multitude of small generation points precludes most of the gains from the extra energy supply.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#59
post #41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you have been paying attention to what he says, then you would have heard that he is incredibly against renewable energy sources, especially wind (he has a major grudge against wind farms ever since his battle with them in Scotland) http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/22/trump-re... it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stand…

> it is notoriously difficult to pin down what Trump stands for because it really depends on the day and time and situation since he only truly cares about himself and only thinks about what will benefit him. I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance. He isn't talking to the media, he's talking around them.

> I think it's more that he knows his audience. He isn't going to talk up renewable in coal mining areas for instance.

That's what makes this so interesting, his audience is now the whole country and now he actually has to do something.

Re: Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

#60

It talks about Tesla, but I'm not really sure how much oil prices can really decline. I would be more worried about SolarCity and solar in general. Trump says he wants to expand coal, nat gas, etc.. and cheaper prices for those (and perhaps discontinuation of credits for renewable energy) would discourage new solar installations. What would be really sad is if this policy change causes bankruptcies in renewable energ…

Agreed. But ironically the biggest pressure on solar now (and in the last 5 years) is price manipulation by China - something he promises to fight (though not necessarily for the sake of green tech).
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