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The smug style in American liberalism

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261–270 of 435 posts

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#261
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently in the privacy of a voting booth, people are willing to express their true beliefs. It appears that Trump won because of working-class people in the Rust Belt, who repeatedly got the short end of the stick by the neoliberal policy of both parties. Democrats should have had their backs, but they'd abandoned them, instead, serving the "professional meritocracy". He did not win because of spoiled, well-off…

It appears that Trump won because of... You missed the point I was making - I was speculating why electoral predictions were wrong, not speculating why Trump won. I rather hope liberals don't develop empathy for the wealthy Americans who handed the election to Trump. Empathy is truly a destructive force in the world. We feel far more empathy for those close to us, those who look like us, those who are blessed with at…

The false speculations -- shared by both liberals and conservative, BTW -- were the result of the same blindness of the elites that has led to the outcome. If you've read those who weren't blind, like Thomas Frank,they saw it coming (although I think even Frank thought that the blind establishment would prevail in this cycle).

I can't tell if you're joking in the rest of your comment or not, but as to qualities you value, the test is simple: are those the qualities that you'd attribute to those you consider your social equals or superiors, or, in other words, are those the qualities you truly believe give people most social power (status and influence) in your own society? One of the distinguishing characteristics of scientific racism, from its modern rise in the late 19th century has always been to attribute "good" qualities to the races considered inferior as an attempt to paint itself not as a hate group but as simply the objective understanding of the natural order: every species has its good and bad qualities, and so does every race; every species has its place, and so does every race. Of course, scientific racism has always attributed to its believers those very qualities that happen to coincide with most power, because it's not about "better" or "worse", but naturally deserving of power or not. In other words, I smiled when I saw your "black female supremacist" comment, because I've read the exact same thing by writers in late 19th century many years ago in school, that I can't tell if you're ironically referencing classic scientific racism tropes or not. In any event, the view you're presenting here is actually called scientific racism. It is not an "attack on you" by any means, just as calling me socialist isn't an attack on me. I believe that if you read some of the vast scientific racism literature, you'll gladly identify yourself as a member (unless realizing how familiar and old your opinions are would make you understand how far they are from true heterodoxy).

BTW, attributing Jews with qualities that actually do coincide with social power is also a trademark feature of antisemitism, scientific or otherwise. It is crucial for (or at least, the habit of) nativist/racist movements to paint themselves as both deserving of power as well as victims, at once weak and powerful. So if you want to follow up with a question of whether or not you're a Jewish supremacist, you can spare it. I've read it all in 100+-year-old books.

I don't know if empathy is primarily destructive or not, but I still pity those who lack it.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#262
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Trump has misled them is obvious, but not because of any policy he may have suggested, but because he is too preoccupied with tweets, self-portraits, marking stuff with his name, gilded chairs and boobs to effectively enact any policy; it is reported that he is unable to read even short texts or engage in a conversation that isn't about him for more than ten minutes, for god's sake (although I am not yet sure if…

Americans can certainly reshape their society to bring back factory work, but there are practical concerns here. Who are your buyers, what are you making, who are your competitors, etc. Its not all fantasy make-believe on the economic level. There are real economic laws that you can't break via legislation. You guys want to compete with the Vietnamese? Fine, but be prepared to have the lifestyle $150 a month in wages…

> Americans can certainly reshape their society to bring back factory work, but there are practical concerns here.

That's not the policy I was suggesting, but pretending that current neoliberal policies (that aren't shared by all successful countries) are the only option is both false, and the main reason that gave us Trump in the first place.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#263
post #87

It's not just America - see the responses after Brexit as well. The major claim seems to be that most people are just not intelligent enough to have voted correctly.

I've heard this argument but from the small sample of brits I know(I'm South African), those who voted Leave are highly educated. Two MBAs and an actuary. This trend seems to influenced by something other than "intelligence".

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This says more about you than about the American public in general. My brother and his wife, and many of the people with whom I work, are not "disgusting misogynistic racist pigs". Actually I know many more Trump voters than disgusting racist pigs. The media really couldn't help it, however. Every president from here on out will be a reality show star. Look for Chris Christie to get a show as soon as he gets booted o…

Nice. You quoted something I didn't say. Twice. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

[deleted]

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This says more about you than about the American public in general. My brother and his wife, and many of the people with whom I work, are not "disgusting misogynistic racist pigs". Actually I know many more Trump voters than disgusting racist pigs. The media really couldn't help it, however. Every president from here on out will be a reality show star. Look for Chris Christie to get a show as soon as he gets booted o…

Nice. You quoted something I didn't say. Twice. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

'scarmig: ...the large majority of people seem to be taking from this experience the learning that Trump voters are all disgusting misogynistic racist pigs...

you: I've yet to meet a Trump voter who didn't meet that criteria.

Are you confused by the English language? Is threaded conversation a new concept for you?

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe this is true. Please cite your sources.

Medical Care - Bureau of Labor Statistics Data[0]: default is 10 year view, but changing it to 2000-2016, and adding yearly data, see [1] [0] http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SAM?output_view=pct_1... [1] http://imgur.com/a/lUR7o

Cost of care has always been super high. What has changed is how much of that people have to pay because of health insurance going to shit.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#267
post #150
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They effectively lost it with the implementation of Obamacare. The premiums and deductibles are so high that the plans only really protect against catastrophic loss for an obscene monthly cost.

> the plans only really protect against catastrophic loss Isn't that the idea of insurance?

No, insurance can protect against any losses.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama is a huge part of why this happened. He promised change and delivered empire.

Wait, what? He ran on fixing the economy (done), ending the war in Iraq (done), restoring our relationship with the rest of the world (done), universal health care (done) and improving the acceptance of minority groups (somewhat done - at least the LGBT community). Illegal immigration is down, unemployment is down, crime is down. There are definitely things Obama hasn't done, but he absolutely delivered change, and h…

> Wait, what? He ran on fixing the economy (done)...

Not really. It's not at the point of collapse, but it sure wasn't a normal recovery. It's better than 2008, but it's still broken in some very real ways.

> ... ending the war in Iraq (done)...

Sort of. The battle for Mosul was in the news just last week, with US involvement.

> ... restoring our relationship with the rest of the world (done)...

Russia is fighting against our goals in Syria, and illegally occupied the eastern Ukraine. Iran has a nuclear deal with us, but immediately started thumbing its nose at us. China is trying to see how much influence they can gain at our expense in Asia. North Korea's nuclear and missile programs are, according to their rhetoric, aimed explicitly at us.

> ... universal health care (done)...

Seen the premium changes for 2017? The law was passed, but "bending the cost curve" sure didn't happen.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is definitely the preference falsification election. I agree. In fact, the point at which I started to think that Trump could win was Hillary's "Basket of Deplorables" blunder. It was a blunder because the way she phrased it, she put far too many in that basket. Paradoxically, because people believed what she said —that there are many Deplorables— she might have initiated the very preference cascade that cost…

It was a terrible blunder, that might have cost her the election, and not because of the number of people she put in the basket. It was a blunder because she called people deplorable. Had she talked about deplorable attitudes , she would have been on firm ground. I hope it doesn't sound like a fine distinction, because it isn't. I voted for her; I am terrified of Trump -- rightly or wrongly, we'll now find out; but I…

I don't think the election was about mistakes. It was about loathing for both candidates. Turns out the loathing for Hillary was higher.

I should qualify that. Trump, for all his negatives, had people who genuinely agreed with him. He also had a bunch of "not really for Trump, but I am sick to death of Hillary and her scandals and her Machiavellian machinations" voters. Hillary had a bunch of "good heavens, not Trump" voters, some "female in office, therefore has to be good voters", and not all that many "really love her positions" voters.

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