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How settling Mars could create a new human species

nautil.us

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Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#51

Post by JoeDaDude »

mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

There is a historical precedent for a similar situation in North America, which was settled by the French and Indian War.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#52

Post by SixSigma »

wyager wrote: post #37
dfar1 wrote: post #9

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go from there.

Strictly speaking, it should be possible for humans to go interstellar using current technology. Practically speaking, it's not, due to the partial nuclear test ban treaty. Here's a good start to that Wikipedia hole: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propu...

What about when Mars declares independence from Earth and develops nuclear capability ?

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#53

Post by SixSigma »

NickBusey wrote: post #19
azdle wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the Outer Space Treaty [1]: > The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object reta…

So, while no one can actually claim the land, if they land a bunch of habitat shaped 'space objects' on the surface, it is still under the jurisdiction of the country that launched them. Sounds like a loophole? "We don't claim this land, it's just covered with a city sized grouping of space objects that we do claim."

Dispatcher: Hello 911

Caller: Someone just broke into my space pod.

Dispatcher: Ok, I'll send someone right over, should be with you in 6 months or so.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#54

Post by wongarsu »

M_Grey wrote: post #22
eveningcoffee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are exploiting the oceans to large degree: fishing, oil pumping, waste dumping, trade routes, even possibly some of the CO2 accumulation.

I was thinking more in terms of places to live actually... since that's the only benefit Mars has for us. Asteroid mining is an easy thing to see the benefit of, but colonizing another gravity well without fully exploiting our own? Not so much.

But what advantages does settling the ocean have compared to say, settling Wyoming (which with 6 people per square mile is much, much closer to the average population density of the ocean than the average population density of land)?

With settling Mars we mitigate a number of potential extinction events, and fulfill some science fiction dreams. Living in the ocean also helps with both goals, but to a much lesser degree.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#55

Post by edblarney »

dfar1 wrote: post #9

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go from there.

Living on Mars = living inside a crapped space your entire life and never being able to breathe fresh air, or take a walk outside.

Maybe in 1000 years Mars will be nice.

I think until then - nice for a short visit.

Living in a box would get tiring very, very quickly.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#56

Post by edblarney »

myowncrapulence wrote: post #34
dfar1 wrote: post #9

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go from there.

I'm sure there was someone in 1492 saying the same thing about America. The grass is always greener.

Living in North America is not that-that different from living in Europe.

There is no 'green grass' on Mars, literally or metaphorically. There isn't even any 'air'.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#57

Post by curried_haskell »

azdle wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

There is the Outer Space Treaty [1]: > The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object reta…

This treaty will be shred to pieces the moment anyone with power gets a serious economic and colonization interest in space. It's utterly worthless.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#58

Post by logfromblammo »

fao_ wrote: post #31
jack9 wrote: post #28

This is pretty backwards. We will genetically engineer humans to live on Mars. This is the only way it can work. Any genetic drift would be optimized and changed by the same biotechnology, so there's no chance that a new species would be created in less than a millenia.

Genetically engineering someone to live on Mars could itself create enough of a difference that a new species could be created

If the engineering is done correctly, the new models remain backward-compatible with the old.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#59

Post by erispoe »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #40
rawnlq wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does the selection pressure come from though? I have enough faith in our race that even if we have someone who is genetically less fit for mars we won't just let him die before he reaches a reproductive age. So will it be by their potential partners? It would be pretty funny if they end up developing martian dating apps that requires putting their DNA sequences online just like how height and race is currently…

> martian dating apps that requires putting their DNA sequences online This isn't how selection pressure works. And while you're correct that we won't let a human die, potential partners already do a sort of DNA analysis. While it's not as ruthless as in the wild, potential partners definitely evaluate each other based on criteria like fitness, appearance, and intelligence, which have genetic components. Consider tha…

> potential partners definitely evaluate each other based on criteria like fitness, appearance, and intelligence, which have genetic components

To have sex, yes, but I'm not sure it translates in any meaningful in the number of surviving offsprings we have, therefore eliminating selection pressure at the human scale. We have removed a good chunk of selection pressure, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Selection pressure, however, is still a very real phenomenon for the micro-biology inhabiting and interacting with our bodies.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#60

Post by Justanothernick »

kogepathic wrote: post #46
amorphid wrote: post #33

Could Mars ever be terraformed to the point a human, or human derivative, could operate comfortably in the open atmosphere? It seems pretty cold, air pressure is low, and there's little-to-no protection from solar radiation.

Likely no. Because Mars lacks a magnetic field to protect fragile meatbags from cosmic radiation. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars

Yes this is true, but there are pockets of very strong magnetic fields which could presumably "help" protect small stations and camps of us squishy little carbon bags of water.

http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov/images.html

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