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How settling Mars could create a new human species

nautil.us

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Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#11

Post by xkcd-sucks »

M_Grey wrote: post #6

I suspect the truth is that we wont' be truly settling Mars for any length of time, and if we do it will be with automation rather than humans, or humans who have been extensively modified, maybe even bred for the role. The alternative is a series of technological breakthroughs which are nowhere apparent on the horizon.

Insects, algae, lichens, bacteria etc. are might be stronger contenders than inorganic self-replicating machinery. They're pretty good at surviving harsh environments already, evolve pretty quickly, and often have life cycles adapted to multiple types of environment and timescales of activity, much like multi-stage spacecraft.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#13

Post by rawnlq »

api wrote: post #2

This is absolutely correct from a perspective of bog-standard evolutionary biology. A "fork" of a species into two very different environments with limited gene flow between them is virtually guaranteed to eventually lead to speciation event. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

Where does the selection pressure come from though?

I have enough faith in our race that even if we have someone who is genetically less fit for mars we won't just let him die before he reaches a reproductive age.

So will it be by their potential partners? It would be pretty funny if they end up developing martian dating apps that requires putting their DNA sequences online just like how height and race is currently required.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#14

Post by novalis78 »

mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

Of course... that's one of the arguments for colonizing Mars sooner than later.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#15

Post by M_Grey »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #11
M_Grey wrote: post #6

I suspect the truth is that we wont' be truly settling Mars for any length of time, and if we do it will be with automation rather than humans, or humans who have been extensively modified, maybe even bred for the role. The alternative is a series of technological breakthroughs which are nowhere apparent on the horizon.

Insects, algae, lichens, bacteria etc. are might be stronger contenders than inorganic self-replicating machinery. They're pretty good at surviving harsh environments already, evolve pretty quickly, and often have life cycles adapted to multiple types of environment and timescales of activity, much like multi-stage spacecraft.

The problem there is that however we engineer them, we'll be competing with evolution in situ, and at a great distance. Machines break, but they also do just what you design them to do.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#16

Post by ChuckMcM »

azdle wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

There is the Outer Space Treaty [1]: > The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object reta…

Yes, and countries can, and do, remove themselves from treaties when they feel it is in their best interest. The most critical one in our time was the anti-ballistic missile treaty which the US withdrew from in 2001.

If a country felt they could control access to and maintain control over, a celestial body I could imagine them withdrawing from the treaty and claiming that body as their own.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/13/international/bush-pulls-o...

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#17

Post by dpc59 »

mc32 wrote: post #10
M_Grey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colonization of Earth was accomplished with brute force, not visas.

Imagine deep sea exploration. Someone finds something very valuable and worth extracting despite the cost. There are treaties for this, of course. But would it work the same for Mars? Or, would we revert to force, as you say, if the Mars colony declares independence and says, no more Earthlings or only Earthlings from Country X who pay us handsomely.

When it comes to politics might is right.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#18

Post by eveningcoffee »

M_Grey wrote: post #8
rootbear wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It would be interesting to see how genetic engineering might be used to "steer" the changes needed to adapt to life on Mars. I've been concerned about the gravity issue for some time. It's not at all clear that 0.38g is healthy for humans in the long term. And the radiation threat is a very serious issue, even just for the trip out there. The long term effects are hard to predict. It really is a pity that Ven…

Or we could try to exploit the 78%+ of this planet we don't use... the oceans. Easier than space, that's for damned sure.

We are exploiting the oceans to large degree: fishing, oil pumping, waste dumping, trade routes, even possibly some of the CO2 accumulation.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#19

Post by NickBusey »

azdle wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

There is the Outer Space Treaty [1]: > The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object reta…

So, while no one can actually claim the land, if they land a bunch of habitat shaped 'space objects' on the surface, it is still under the jurisdiction of the country that launched them. Sounds like a loophole? "We don't claim this land, it's just covered with a city sized grouping of space objects that we do claim."

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#20

Post by bbctol »

azdle wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

There is the Outer Space Treaty [1]: > The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[3] Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object reta…

That said, the definition of "space object" could make things tricky. Sure, China doesn't own this chunk of Mars, but they own the Mars base, and freely mine from the areas around the base, and decide who can open the door that they own...
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