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How settling Mars could create a new human species

nautil.us

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Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#21

Post by babuskov »

mc32 wrote: post #10
M_Grey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colonization of Earth was accomplished with brute force, not visas.

Imagine deep sea exploration. Someone finds something very valuable and worth extracting despite the cost. There are treaties for this, of course. But would it work the same for Mars? Or, would we revert to force, as you say, if the Mars colony declares independence and says, no more Earthlings or only Earthlings from Country X who pay us handsomely.

> Mars colony declares independence

It worked out fine for the USA.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#22

Post by M_Grey »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #18
M_Grey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could try to exploit the 78%+ of this planet we don't use... the oceans. Easier than space, that's for damned sure.

We are exploiting the oceans to large degree: fishing, oil pumping, waste dumping, trade routes, even possibly some of the CO2 accumulation.

I was thinking more in terms of places to live actually... since that's the only benefit Mars has for us. Asteroid mining is an easy thing to see the benefit of, but colonizing another gravity well without fully exploiting our own? Not so much.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#23

Post by dpc59 »

M_Grey wrote: post #8
rootbear wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It would be interesting to see how genetic engineering might be used to "steer" the changes needed to adapt to life on Mars. I've been concerned about the gravity issue for some time. It's not at all clear that 0.38g is healthy for humans in the long term. And the radiation threat is a very serious issue, even just for the trip out there. The long term effects are hard to predict. It really is a pity that Ven…

Or we could try to exploit the 78%+ of this planet we don't use... the oceans. Easier than space, that's for damned sure.

Not necessarily, deep water is a shit ton of pressure.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#24

Post by M_Grey »

mc32 wrote: post #10
M_Grey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colonization of Earth was accomplished with brute force, not visas.

Imagine deep sea exploration. Someone finds something very valuable and worth extracting despite the cost. There are treaties for this, of course. But would it work the same for Mars? Or, would we revert to force, as you say, if the Mars colony declares independence and says, no more Earthlings or only Earthlings from Country X who pay us handsomely.

I mean... if a Mars colony really pisses people off, I imagine you'd hear the phrase, "Nuke them from orbit" bandied about a lot.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#25

Post by M_Grey »

dpc59 wrote: post #23
M_Grey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could try to exploit the 78%+ of this planet we don't use... the oceans. Easier than space, that's for damned sure.

Not necessarily, deep water is a shit ton of pressure.

Still easier than vacuum, hard radiation, and total isolation from a functional biosphere. You don't have to colonize the Marianas Trench after all.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#26

Post by vkou »

babuskov wrote: post #21
mc32 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine deep sea exploration. Someone finds something very valuable and worth extracting despite the cost. There are treaties for this, of course. But would it work the same for Mars? Or, would we revert to force, as you say, if the Mars colony declares independence and says, no more Earthlings or only Earthlings from Country X who pay us handsomely.

> Mars colony declares independence It worked out fine for the USA.

A Mars base declaring independence would be like the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station declaring independence.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#27

Post by zardo »

api wrote: post #2

This is absolutely correct from a perspective of bog-standard evolutionary biology. A "fork" of a species into two very different environments with limited gene flow between them is virtually guaranteed to eventually lead to speciation event. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

We wont be colonizing Mars in a future where we can't email and print a genome.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#28

Post by jack9 »

This is pretty backwards. We will genetically engineer humans to live on Mars. This is the only way it can work. Any genetic drift would be optimized and changed by the same biotechnology, so there's no chance that a new species would be created in less than a millenia.

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#29

Post by sly010 »

mc32 wrote: post #3

A different question altogether, but interesting none the less, let's say Russia or China get to colonize Mars first, then let's say they find a safe way to thrive there. could they then by extension manage new colonization of Mars the same way we colonized earth? That is the colonizer could regulate who might get to further colonize Mars --ie require a kind of interplanetary visa (if we allow many people from many p…

> And what if the new Martians just declare independence?

We just cut their supplies for 3 months ;)

Re: How settling Mars could create a new human species

#30

Post by hourislate »

It looks like we have to overcome the technological hurdles of creating gravity and some kind of shielding (invisible) that can protect humans from radiation. Steady power would be required. Curious if wind power could be used. If Musk could send a rocket to Mars that was basically a huge wind turbine that would anchor itself and unfold its blades, couldn't it create enough power to provide for a small contingent of people? Add some solar and there could be an abundance of power. With a good source of plentiful and steady power it would certainly make this endeavor more possible.
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