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Time to Dump Time Zones

nytimes.com

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Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#181

Post by roel_v »

jack9 wrote: post #128
emodendroket wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's arbitrary, but we're on a continuum somewhere between every couple feet the time changes a few minutes and no adjustment at all and it feels to me like we're close to a happy medium.

It's not quite that simple. Timezones change (less often than postal codes, but across the world, it's still a bunch of maintenance changes). Getting rid of timezones would be simpler and reduce a monumental number of bugs (as well as code and potential problems). See the Russian changes! https://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/

Only a few people have to maintain the time zone system, and only a few people (those writing the software that everybody else uses) have to understand the minutiae. The alternative is that everybody has to understand, which will invariably cause many mistakes.

I mean, when someone schedules an across-timezones meeting they use software anyway; and who really cares about that one time 2 decades ago when some small region switched timezones or whatever? (yes, I'm painfully aware that there are changes to timezones across the world pretty much every month; what I'm saying is how often does anyone really care about the historical changes, in contexts where the hour or 30 minutes really matters?)

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#182

Post by uryga »

barnacs wrote: post #84

I'd go even further and divide every human settlement into multiple districts with schedules shifting gradually between them. Like, in one "district" of the city most people would be sleeping, it would be quiet and somewhat dead, while at the same time a few "districts" over in the same city businesses would be open, including banks, offices and other stuff on extremely strict schedules currently. Yet in another dist…

Interesting, but I'm pretty sure our body's metabolism is tied to daylight, and this system would be pretty unhealthy for the "night-shift" people in the long-term. (I don't have science on this)

Also I'm not entirely sure what benefits this brings. Seems like the only ones who'd gain something are people dealing with international matters - a small fraction of society. Could you expand on the gains for the average Joanne? :)

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#183

Post by axlee »

roel_v wrote: post #176
ci5er wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your impression is pretty much spot on. We have "military-time" and "24-hour time" available to us in all of our application configurations, but no-one seems to use it. I do because it helps me do time-zone translating transforms to/from UTC in my head more easily, but also because I keep failing to see that little "PM dot" or set the "PM Flag" whenever dealing with times in various applications or alarms. Verbally,…

"Verbally, speaking with USians, 15.00 is always pronounced "3pm"." It's like that everywhere in Europe. Nobody says 'see you at fifteen'. 24 hour clock is merely for writing things down. I mean it would already be an improvement if the US would catch up with that, just saying that a 24 hour clock isn't said out loud as such. (not disagreeing or anything with you I guess, just adding some information).

> It's like that everywhere in Europe. Nobody says 'see you at fifteen'.

Not really? In France it's perfectly normal to say "Rendez-vous à quinze heures" or "Le film commence à vingt-deux heures trente"

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#184

Post by mkj »

powvans wrote: post #102

I've spent the last several years developing applications that have calendaring at the core, where users collaborate across timezones, and where proper timezone handling is expected. Just try to explain to everyday people just how hard the problem is, the technical in and out, the practical miracle that it all works in almost all the cases, that all the error prone complexity can be eliminated by acknowledging that i…

In my experience it's better to store local time (where the event physically happens) with a named timezone. That way when daylight saving laws change with 3 weeks notice you can adjust without shifting events (cough Outlook). UTC can be calculated easily if needed.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#185

Post by angry_octet »

cyberferret wrote: post #154
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't have kids. I used to work whenever I wanted, but now my kids have childcare from 8-5:30, and that is when I work.

2 kids. They are grown up now, but when younger, they were actually cared for by family or a friend of the family who was a professional carer. We were fortunate enough to be able to dictate their care times to suit our schedule. I daresay that if your childcare centre only offered a 11am to 7pm slot then your work schedule would shift accordingly. And why wouldn't a child care institution offer split shifts like thi…

11am-7pm? Kids are often up at dawn and forcing other times is bizarre. So by 1900 the kids would be going mental.

While it would be nice if there was slightly later childcare and work to shift peak hour, I don't really think it will work.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#186

Post by hammerdr »

the8472 wrote: post #140
kryptiskt wrote: post #24

So you want to abolish time zones ( https://qntm.org/abolish )

Everyone would need this on their smartwatch/hololens/whatever. https://www.die.net/earth/

This.

# Before abolishing time zones

  I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. What time is it there?
  Google tells me it is currently 4:25am there.
  It's probably best not to call right now.
# After abolishing time zones

  I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. What time is it there?
  Google shows me a daylight map (First result https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html)
  It's probably best not to call right now.
We are just used to the insanity that is timezones. Of course, I say this because I have to deal with time and timezones every day at work and bugs are always prevalent. Each DST switch there are new bugs we find; every time we change our core date and time code there are bugs. Just painful.

In the end, we'd build new tools and intuitions around time. People would adapt and my life would be measurably better (though not completely solved; scheduling anything across a date boundary is odd. No one thinks of 1am as "tomorrow" but instead as "later tonight").

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#187

Post by jedberg »

baddox wrote: post #164
jedberg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet even with DST, kids in Alaska manage to get to school despite the sun coming up at 10am. This whole "for the kids@ argument is the worst one. Most workers today would prefer going to work in the dark and having daylight after work. Even farmers will tell you DST doesn't make a diffence to them anymore (or ever). The animals get up with the sun regardless of what the clock says. I agree with OP -- in today's m…

You didn't actually make many claims to counter the "for the kids" argument. The fact that kids in Alaska do that is unsurprising, but how does it affect them? I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that Alaska is not one of the most appealing places to live for most people, and all else being equal, I suspect kids and parents would rather the sun come up before school.

As others pointed out society adjusts.

In Anchorage for example elementary school starts between 9am and 9:30am to account for the late sunrise.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#189

Post by roel_v »

derefr wrote: post #65
edblarney wrote: post #19

The article is upside down. "Perhaps you’re asking why the Greenwich meridian gets to define earth time. " It doesn't. Everybody gets to have their own, proper time. In comparing times, we +/- based on an arbitrary spot, and that's it. Time zones are a great solution to a problem. People want their time in local terms. Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept. FYI - if y…

> Everyone waking up and going to bed at different times is an utterly ridiculous concept. For most of us who don't travel or communicate internationally much, sure. But for government ambassadors, military officers, and business executives? A single agreed-upon "Earth time" (even just between such people) would really help to keep track of how many hours they have until their next international flight or conference…

I travel a lot and despite coordinating meetings across timezones being a bit of a pain, I'd hate universal time. When travelling, you just set your watch to whatever timezone you're currently in (phones do it automatically), and to plan meetings you use a website. It would be a major pain having to readjust in every time when trying to find a meeting time 'after lunch' - you'd have to remember a reference point for every time zone you're in, and then do a bunch of arithmetic to adjust for 'first thing after coming into the office', 'just before lunch', 'after work', 'after children are in bed' etc which are the real anchor points you hang your mental time model on.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#190

Post by uryga »

ajmurmann wrote: post #162

I have huge issues with DST and how we measure time in general (24hours, 60 minutes, 60 seconds?! Who the f* came up with these crazy ass numbers?!). But what bugs me much more is the insane calendar. 12 Months with arbitrary numbers of days. That's just crazy. In the very least we could make it so that January to May have 31 days and the remaining months get 30. ideally we would switch to the positivist calendar. Th…

Not sure if this is the reason , but: 24 and 60 are both multiples of 12. This gives you the same benefit dozenal counting systems have - it's easy to divide stuff into 2,3,4,6 parts, the factors of 12. With 60 you get 2,3,4,5,6,10,12. Whole lotta neat factors that come in handy in everyday life :)
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