UMA DELÍCIA!
Social media shutdown in Turkey
51–60 of 81 posts
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does this have to do with actual censorship, shutting down media, and jailing of journalists critical to Erdogan?
I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a co…
Wow. How can Egyptians be so poor in their understanding of the Politics of Egypt. Time and again.
- Mubarak was America's best friend. American's public support for Egyptian democracy? Yeah, that's just for show.
- Who else was America's best friend? The Egyptian army. 90% of US aid goes to propping of the Egyptian military and has for decades (basically the army is in their pockets). America and IDF has had an excellent working relationship (ie help with killing Palestinians) with the Egyptian military for decades.
- Americans didn't like Morsi at all, Although overtly they claimed to support Egyptian democracy.
- Eventually Morsi, messes up. And guess who is there to save the day? Why its the Egyptian Army! Morsi tried to restrict democracy. Sisi will defend democracy by removing it entirely. Next thing you know the entire democratic elected cabinet is on death row and Mubarak is slowly but surely having his charges removed, while living under 'House arrest' in his comfy house.
- Who is now emperor of Egypt? Why its America's point man and best buddy for decades, Sisi (This is purely coincidence, wink wink ). America will very loudly suspend all aid to the dictatorship, only to very quietly resume it a year later.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a co…
I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is: 1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government. 2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.
1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election...
2) Mubarak was also forced to resign by the same military council in February 2011 and the military council ruled until June 2012 when morsi was elected, it just wasn't called a "coup" and "military dictatorship" back then by the western media.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a co…
I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is: 1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government. 2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.
2.0a) As soon as Morsi got elected, his Muslim Brotherhood started passing laws to make the country in their image, and in a short period of time, would have become an Islamic dictatorship. I'm no fan of Sissi's coup but there was no democratic outcome after that election.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
In case the government wants to shut down communication that's a very bad idea. In a global network, it's relatively easy to hide traffic in other traffic. Encapsulation and encryption work just fine. In a physical world, if you want a mesh (RF I'm guessing) network, it's trivial to figure out who's forwarding. You can do that with a cheap scanner and go straight to the doors of people running nodes. If you're trying…
Is there a secure solution for that problem in a physical world then?
Nope. If you're transmitting, you're incredibly easy to find. There's nothing that can change that.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is: 1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government. 2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.
1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election... 2) Mubarak was also forced to resign by the same military council in February 2011 and the military council ruled until June 2012 when morsi was elected, it just wasn't called a "coup" and "military dictatorship" back then by the western media.
> 1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005.
Stalin and many (most?) other dictators also have staged elections. From the article you linked:
----
Of the 30 proposed candidates, only 10 were allowed to participate in the presidential election by the Presidential Election Commission. One prominent candidate not allowed to run was Talaat Sadat, the nephew of former President Anwar Sadat, who appealed his disqualification unsuccessfully.
Egypt's largest Islamic group, the Muslim Brotherhood, was not permitted to field a candidate ...
----
And also:
official results showing he won 88.6% of the vote. Mubarak's opponent, Ayman Nour, of the Tomorrow Party, is estimated to have received 7.3% of the vote and Numan Gumaa received 2.8%,
Numbers like that are unseen in any legitimate election. The highest in U.S. history was 61%.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#57Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia -> Friends Syria, Iran and Russia -> Enemies That's how pay for play works, everybody. If you don't pay, your government is labeled as a dictatorship. Simply fallen from the US grace. The UN is just a diplomatic tool to discredit you and NATO is another tool to kill you.
The changes in Turkey have happened pretty recently and as Turkey is a NATO member (where some nukes are located) and is a crucial player in Syria, most other NATO members look away when this kind of things happen.
I expect huge diplomatic backlashes when the situation in Syria stabilizes. But I'm a bit of a dreamer.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean pay for play, here? Please tell me how Turkey, Quatar and Saudi Arabia are "paying" for anything in terms of meaningful value for the US. This is simple geopolitics, not some corruption scandal.
1. These governments are for example "donating" hundreds of millions every year to many politicians in the US. One of them is may be going to be the next president. 2. Look at the ads and sponsors in the big news channels like CNN, mostly institutions and companies owned by these countries (Qatar airways, Turkish airlines, Dubai, Abu Dhabi...), no wonder on the day of the "coup" against Erdogan, These media outlets l…
- Mubarak was a much stronger ally to the US than Erdogan ever was. So by your logic they would've had to support him even more.
- Erdogan – terrible as he may be – was until recently legitimately elected. I say until recently because (even some time before the coup) he started undermining democratic institutions, mostly the press. Mubarak was never elected in anything but a sham election.
These governments are not donating "hundreds of millions" to politicians. If you can find evidence for that, make it public. Because it's illegal to take money from foreign governments/nationals. Yes – the Clinton foundation did (because it's not a politician, and in turn spends the money on its causes). But it's nowhere near "hundreds of millions", and it had started years before HC became important. And there's no indication that Clinton's behavior vis-a-vis these government was any different than it had been the 40 years before or the three years since her tenure.
Assad is indeed worse than Erdogan, considering he's killed hundreds of thousands, some with chemical weapons.
Everyone is talking about Turkey. There'll be sanctions, their membership in NATO may be frozen. But the problem is simply that there isn't that much that can be done. If you sweep in and bomb Ankara – well, take a look at Iraq. You'll also create incentives for similar countries to acquire nuclear weapons. And there's a principle of non-involvement: Start bombing people (again), you'll make it even easier for Russia to claim legitimacy when they invade something they'd like to have.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#59ITT: Anti-west propaganda commenters, somehow relating censorship issues in Turkey to the "evil west"
A lot of bright green account names too.
Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election... 2) Mubarak was also forced to resign by the same military council in February 2011 and the military council ruled until June 2012 when morsi was elected, it just wasn't called a "coup" and "military dictatorship" back then by the western media.
> 1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. Stalin and many (most?) other dictators also have staged elections. From the article you linked: ---- Of the 30 proposed candidates, only 10 were allowed to participate in the presidential election by the Presidential Election Commission. One prominent candidate not allowed to run was Talaat Sadat, the nephew of former President Anwar Sadat, who appealed his disqualifi…
Still not more dictatorial than detaining tens of thousands and even freeing thousand of criminals to get some room for the alleged coup plotters, a coup where a couple of hundred young soldiers most of whom didn't even know what was going on, and laying off hundreds of thousands of people from all professions (academia, sport, journalism). At the same time, his army is crushing kurd civilians not only in Turkey, but now in Syria and Iraq.
Who is more like Stalin do you think? Mubarak or Erdogan?