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Social media shutdown in Turkey

turkeyblocks.org

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Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#41

Post by kovrik »

viraptor wrote: post #30
gesman wrote: post #3

Need peer-to-peer IoT mesh networks with spillover across the borders.

In case the government wants to shut down communication that's a very bad idea. In a global network, it's relatively easy to hide traffic in other traffic. Encapsulation and encryption work just fine. In a physical world, if you want a mesh (RF I'm guessing) network, it's trivial to figure out who's forwarding. You can do that with a cheap scanner and go straight to the doors of people running nodes. If you're trying…

Is there a secure solution for that problem in a physical world then?

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#42

Post by hackuser »

myf01d wrote: post #14

Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia -> Friends Syria, Iran and Russia -> Enemies That's how pay for play works, everybody. If you don't pay, your government is labeled as a dictatorship. Simply fallen from the US grace. The UN is just a diplomatic tool to discredit you and NATO is another tool to kill you.

I'm pretty confident that it has nothing to do with pay, but with geopolitics. In fact, I think the U.S. generally gives them more money (and other aid) than vice versa. The former three are allies and provide essential value to the U.S. Off the top of my head:

Turkey gives NATO an very valuable geopolitical position, with leverage as the most powerful nation in the Mideast neighborhood, as well as dominating the Black Sea and eastern Mediterranean, and providing a position on the southern flank of Russia, eastern flank of the Balkans (less essential post-Cold War), and a stable border with countries to the east and south. Turkey as an enemy would be a serious headache.

Qatar and especially Saudi Arabia, the wealthiest and most powerful Arab state, give the U.S. leverage and stability (at least for decades until recently) in the Mideast, which, due to the oil supply, is essential to world peace and prosperity. They also counter-balance to Iran.

Those benefits don't necessarily justify supporting oppression, but those are very serious considerations.

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#43

Post by not_ed_snow »

hackuser wrote: post #42
myf01d wrote: post #14

Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia -> Friends Syria, Iran and Russia -> Enemies That's how pay for play works, everybody. If you don't pay, your government is labeled as a dictatorship. Simply fallen from the US grace. The UN is just a diplomatic tool to discredit you and NATO is another tool to kill you.

I'm pretty confident that it has nothing to do with pay, but with geopolitics. In fact, I think the U.S. generally gives them more money (and other aid) than vice versa. The former three are allies and provide essential value to the U.S. Off the top of my head: Turkey gives NATO an very valuable geopolitical position, with leverage as the most powerful nation in the Mideast neighborhood, as well as dominating the Bla…

I believe that's what parent referred to as the "pay" part.

Maybe more accurately would be "play ball with us or with nobody".

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#44

Post by hackuser »

not_ed_snow wrote: post #43
hackuser wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty confident that it has nothing to do with pay, but with geopolitics. In fact, I think the U.S. generally gives them more money (and other aid) than vice versa. The former three are allies and provide essential value to the U.S. Off the top of my head: Turkey gives NATO an very valuable geopolitical position, with leverage as the most powerful nation in the Mideast neighborhood, as well as dominating the Bla…

I believe that's what parent referred to as the "pay" part. Maybe more accurately would be "play ball with us or with nobody".

EDIT: That's not what the commenter says below:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869673

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#45

Post by hackuser »

myf01d wrote: post #27
denfromufa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with actual censorship, shutting down media, and jailing of journalists critical to Erdogan?

I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a co…

I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is:

1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government.

2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#46

Post by hackuser »

myf01d wrote: post #23
ztratar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean pay for play, here? Please tell me how Turkey, Quatar and Saudi Arabia are "paying" for anything in terms of meaningful value for the US. This is simple geopolitics, not some corruption scandal.

1. These governments are for example "donating" hundreds of millions every year to many politicians in the US. One of them is may be going to be the next president. 2. Look at the ads and sponsors in the big news channels like CNN, mostly institutions and companies owned by these countries (Qatar airways, Turkish airlines, Dubai, Abu Dhabi...), no wonder on the day of the "coup" against Erdogan, These media outlets l…

> 1. These governments are for example "donating" hundreds of millions every year to many politicians in the US ...

They do invest, though I'd need evidence of hundreds of millions. Regardless, the U.S. has very strong geopolticial reasons to support them:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12870161

> no wonder on the day of the "coup" against Erdogan, These media outlets labeled his "supporters" as pro-democracy. That never happened for Hosni Mubarak who was labeled as an evil dictator for example

Mubarak was a dictator and Erdogan is democratically elected.

> "Assad" (he is a dictator yeah, but not worse then Erdogan)

I very strongly disagree. How many people has Erdogan killed? Did Erdogan use chemical weapons on his own people? Invite the Russian military, Iranian military, and Hezbollah into his country to kill his own people? I strongly dislake Erdogan, but there is no comparison.

> No one is condemning or even talking about the horrific crimes like Turkey against the kurds, Saudi Arabia killing thousands of Shia in Yemen

I've heard plenty of talk about it, but people aren't dying on nearly the same scale as in Syria.

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#48

Post by oxide »

dibstern wrote: post #40

ITT: Anti-west propaganda commenters, somehow relating censorship issues in Turkey to the "evil west"

This is par for the course around here.

If you ever forget that Russia is persecuted by the evil western media, just come to the HN comment section to be reminded.

Re: Social media shutdown in Turkey

#49

Post by hackuser »

enraged_camel wrote: post #4

I just got back from visiting family in Turkey. Turkey is in a really weird place. On the one hand, Erdogan is a corrupt tyrant who has done some inexcusably horrible things. On the other hand, he has thoroughly cleaned the cemaat infestation. For the record, cemaat refers to people loyal to a man named Fethullah Gulen, who is a radical Islamist and a very controversial figure in Turkey. You can read more about him h…

It's hard to see Gulen as worse than Erdogan, who has invaded Iraq, oppressing his population, reignited war with and is killing Kurdish people, and building relations with Russia. He's outlawed criticism of himself and arrested people for it, shut down newspapers ...

> he has thoroughly cleaned ...

The upside to every dictator, with just different endings to the sentence. Too bad for the innocent people imprisoned, whose lives have been ruined. No problem for you and me, so it's a good thing.

Freedom and rights mean for everyone else; everyone believes in freedom for themselves.

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