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Ask HN: Who is firing?

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431–440 of 454 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#431
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we use the terms the same way in the US, just the protections behind them are weaker (and personally, as an employee, I'm fine with it that way). You might be thinking of the phrase "was let go", which is just a nicer way of saying "got fired". "Laid off" here means the same as in the UK: you were sent home because your job function isn't needed anymore, or because the company is downsizing.

> and personally, as an employee, I'm fine with it that way You mean as a reasonably well-off employee who was lucky enough to have picked a growing field when you went to uni. On the other hand, if that field ever stops growing for any reason... you might see why people enjoy stability and the ability to plan ahead in their work life.

That's rather undeservedly flippant.

Actually I picked a dying field at uni. Well, not a dying one, but it's become very difficult over the past 10-15 years to find a job doing digital hardware design. Fortunately I gave up on that quickly and switched to software (something I was lucky enough to start picking up well before uni).

But I think that misses the point. We shouldn't halt progress in the name of job security. I'm fine with slowing progress a little; hell, even in the US it's customary (even though not required by law) to pay a decent severance package during layoffs. But I just don't get this whole idea that you're entitled to a job (and job security) just because you trained for it.

I also don't get the resistance toward retraining, aside from the obvious issue that retraining takes time and money, and in the meantime you have to feed and shelter yourself (but this sort of thing can and should be solved via social safety nets). Sure it would be easy to be able to have a single job for the rest of your life, but that's just not how life works, or should work. Things get obsoleted all the time, and that doesn't mean we should legally require private enterprises to keep paying someone to do useless work.

I do very much object to how difficult it can be to vanilla fire someone in many places in Europe. They've gone way too far with that one. Extra protections for layoffs are fine, but if someone is consistently underperforming, it should be possible to get rid of them immediately and without any sort of severance. I've been at a couple very small companies in the US where the lack of ability to do that sort of thing could have killed the company.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#432
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that pro-employee laws are not in fact good for employees. Regardless of whether or not you agree with them, it's super uncharitable to dismiss them in this way.

Pro-employee laws are not good for employees in the success case - that you're a top 10% worker in a field that is growing and has lots of demand. The thing is, if you think about the failure case - you're a disposable cog in a field that's stagnating - there's issues which need to be solved, unless you're a staunch libertarian with a belief that people who are unable to find work should die. Nobody wants to pay for…

> Nobody wants to pay for a 40yo person with a family to spend years retraining when they lose their job and can't find another, so what is there to do?

That's the thing I don't get. In the grand scheme of things, it is much less costly to an economy to pay to retrain someone than it is to pay them to do a redundant job. It's even less costly than doing nothing and kicking them to the curb.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I thought it was that it smells a bit too much like communism. Which seems to be gradually becoming less of a problem over time, even here in the USA.

Well, "why should I pay for my neighbour's re-education when they should've just picked right in the first place?" - if you are lucky enough to pick a field which grows for the rest of your life, and you're a reasonably good worker, you're never going to take advantage of that and so your neighbour gets more than you from the Government. Not fair! /s

Is that actually a prevalent attitude, though? I mean, it's stupid... someone else retraining is easily still having it harder than someone who "picked right". And in the end, I'd much rather help pay for someone's education than have to walk past them on the street, begging for money.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#435
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failing business and laid off workers combined with executive compensation increases/bonuses is very much an example of why Sanders and Trump are so popular, and why candidates like them (or more extreme) will come out of the woodwork in 4 years.

I find it hard to believe Trump wouldn't, or hasn't, done exactly as Hertz has done. This seems like an all too common stratagem for upper echelons within a business to convince shareholders that the books are healing.

How do you lay off lazy citizens? Well... without violating several international conventions.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#436

So I heard through the grapevine about a company in Melbourne Aus making a 'virtual personal assistant'. CEO is an ex fortune 500 bigshot that jetsets across the world with their daughter (also senior management at the company) burning cash like there's no tomorrow, while giving the illusion that business deals are 'just about to come through'. The smart ones have been leaving consistently through the company's histo…

I think I applied to them about 6 months ago. I was rejected for "not doing TDD" because I checked in my tests and code at the same time.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#437

There is a big german gamecompany that hasn't paid 300+ employees in 4 months so they are bleeding employees instead of firing them.

Is there any more info you can provide? I dont want to sound combative, just curious because I have a lot of friends there and I havent heard anything. Is this happening for all employees? Do you think Crytek is holding on for robinson? I actually literally just got an offer a few weeks ago, this changes a lot. I know crytek had trouble before, but Im suprised these struggles are translating to the FFM studio.

As soneone who reads just the news and liked their older games:

I really don't understand why Crytek management did so many rather stupid decisions. Everyone told them, they are wrong, multiple times. The had one of the brst games with Far Cry 1 and Crysis 1. Then everything onwards went wrong. The started multiple developer studios. Developed boring console games like Rise. Dumbed down Crysis from an more open world shooter to a narrow map lacklustre Call of Duty clone with Crysis 2. Then they did a little known Crisis 3 and bet big on Free2Play games, everyone warned them, but the still went on and hit the wall big time. Then they lost several studios, were unable to pay devs, lost engine devs to Star Citizen, did the Amazon engine license deal. Then Unreal 4 engine was released "for free"(*), they reacted not optimal to this event. Now with their Free2Play strategy hit the ground, they bet big on VR and their writing is on the wall. Why can't the just focus on Triple-A games like Crysis 1? They have a very good engine, and had two Triple-A games. Really sad, but it doesn't look good reading the other comments.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#438
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I would prefer to be laid off vs fired... That's a distinction with very little difference. You got pushed out. Creating a poor employee performance review is standard corporate cover for incompetent managers. Besides, who do you want on the team? Cheerfully loyal minions or the guy who gripes about overtime? Use the Group Restructure/Company Lay-offs as your cover story for leaving and move-on.

That is definitely the approach I would use. Something like: "The company went through a series of restructures and down-sizing, and I got caught up in that. They mostly kept the junior staff and a lot of the senior developers were let go."

Smooth!

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#439
post #424
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the requirements of the EU bluecard are in line with the EU average - low for Germany.

Not really for Berlin. It's more than average pay, see http://www.nuberlin.com/2016/01/average-salary-in-berlin/ Also note, 38K is for person with science/engineering background. Otherwise, lower limit for EU Bluecard is around 48K

That seems a bit low. Here in London it's a waiter's salary.

Re: Ask HN: Who is firing?

#440
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would honestly refrain from telling people you were fired in that case, and simply state you were laid off. I would then begin to infer that something fishy was going on internally and that you're probably better off not being involved with the company anymore. It really sounds to me like management didn't know how to deal with the situation and a "performance review" was simply their scapegoat, and not the reality…

Agreed. If your former employer is smart, they won't say much beyond "yes, that person worked here" when contacted by any company that is looking to hire you. If they say anything that directly results in you being denied a job, it opens them up to lawsuits. (at least that's my understanding)

HR professional weighing in here :)

You are correct. It's not just "if they're smart" it's "if they're complying with the law." Former employers are only legally allowed to confirm employment, salary (yes, really), and whether or not you're eligible for rehire.

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