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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#141

Post by ythl »

neotek wrote: post #134
ythl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any statistics on percentage of vape users quitting analog smoking vs. recreational/teen experimental usage? If there are strong recreational vape trends in youth I can see why anti-vape ads might be a thing.

Teens already experiment with smoking actual cigarettes, all vaping does is provide them with an alternative to experiment with that is far safer and less addicting than tobacco.

That's not a good enough reason to not have anti-vape commercials. Just because it's "less bad" than analog cigarettes doesn't mean we shouldn't speak out about their negative effects.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#142

Post by cptskippy »

nemacol wrote: post #70
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

This is my experience as well. 10 years of smoking analogs lead me to ecigs. Used ecig for 3 years. Went from 18mg to 0 in the last 6 months of me using. Continued using 0 nic for 2 months. Now I am 8 months clean of all nicotine products and 6 months clean of ecigs in general. It was easy because of how gradual it was and that I was still able to satisfy the oral habit of smoking while kicking the chemical dependenc…

Can you recommend any resources for this? I'd love to encourage some family members in this direction.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#143

Post by CaptSpify »

mwfunk wrote: post #131
CaptSpify wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with taxes on them for a different reason: They are a luxury good. Nobody needs them.

You could say that about almost anything though. I don't need to post on HN, but that fact alone wouldn't justify a tax on HN posting.

That's a heavy apples-to-oranges comparison. Finite goods != publicly accessible web-pages.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#144

Post by takingflac »

infogulch wrote: post #45
gr3yh47 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC it has to do with the anguish of quitting - if you went through the difficulty and pain of quitting cold turkey you probably don't want that to be for nothing

Sunk cost strikes again? This time for good.

I wouldn't say sunk cost so much as you now have a better understanding of what the price is now that you have paid it once.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#145

Post by eof »

cptskippy wrote: post #142
nemacol wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my experience as well. 10 years of smoking analogs lead me to ecigs. Used ecig for 3 years. Went from 18mg to 0 in the last 6 months of me using. Continued using 0 nic for 2 months. Now I am 8 months clean of all nicotine products and 6 months clean of ecigs in general. It was easy because of how gradual it was and that I was still able to satisfy the oral habit of smoking while kicking the chemical dependenc…

Can you recommend any resources for this? I'd love to encourage some family members in this direction.

the ecigaratte subreddits are extremely helpful... they seem to have changed since i was using it (similar story to others.. smoked analogs for a decade, after about 2 years on ecigs I am not vaping or taking any nicotine).. this seems to be the best place: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vaping/

you can get a good setup for ~$50 then the heaviest users will spend like $30/month on juice (most users will spend a fraction of that)

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#146

Post by the_watcher »

kstrauser wrote: post #140
mcguire wrote: post #95

" Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture, said Deborah Arnott, the chief executive of Action on Smoking and Health. " This is true. You can see the same thing during the (alcohol) prohibition era: because ethyl alcohol is necessary for other uses, it was mandated to be "denatured" by adding chemicals that…

Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture I think that's hugely simplified. There are plenty of drugs which are exceedingly difficult to use recreationally: - Crack - Meth - Nicotine - Heroin People who use those at all are very likely to use them a whole hell of a lot, and they have terrible health effects.…

That stat isn't necessarily causal though. Have they controlled for the fact that 8th graders who start using e-cigs are already more likely to start smoking tobacco cigarettes? Which seems like a very reasonably assumption to make

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#147

Post by the_watcher »

It's only briefly alluded to in the piece, indirectly at that, but one of the most frustrating things about vice taxes is that they are sold as methods to disincentivize behavior, but as governments use the revenue, as that behavior falls, there's a tendency to try to create an equivalent tax on the new behavior. The worst of these are the periodic proposals for a "mileage tax" on high efficiency vehicles in states like California, which has actually been pitched (unsuccessfully) for the explicit purpose of replacing the revenue lost on gas taxes from the shift towards electric and high mileage cars.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#148

Post by cr0sh »

yuubi wrote: post #98
exprA wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't smoke, and it isn't burnt plant matter. In theory the vapour might have as strong a smell as cigarette smoke; in practice even the most strong smelling vapours are mostly comparable to the smell of personal fragrances, and we are ways off from banning those as well.

In practice, there's often no useful difference between a thin cloud of vile-smelling smoke and a thick cloud of fruity-smelling vape: many people would prefer to avoid both. (Also, the vape cloud leaves much more residue than smoke did, just much less foul). Best policy seems to be to use the things only where actual smoking is allowed to try to avoid annoying bystanders.

I wonder if people would still be annoyed if it didn't produce a cloud?

To me, it seems like many people have this weird "ick" about natural biological functions. Some are understandable - like body waste, and sneezing/coughing that could spread contagions. Regular smoking I can understand from the standpoint that it smells bad.

But vape clouds typically smell good. But they are visible. So people are reminded of "ick - breath!" meaning something similar to coughing/sneezing (and not covering your mouth/nose)...

Yet, nobody seems to have an aversion to everyone around them just "breathing" normally - or even an exasperated sigh or huff - which is arguably just as much breath coming out as someone vaping.

Just that it is invisible - and now no "ick factor" if you will.

It's kinda crazy; here is something that can and could really help smokers, yet being vilified because of some weird hangup people have with breathing - because it is visible. It is similar to how some people love to eat chicken nuggets, but give them a bone-in chicken wing and all of a sudden it is "gross - it has bones" - like the nugget is somehow more sanitary or further removed from the chicken because it is boneless?

/humans are weird

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#149

Post by tome »

nemacol wrote: post #70
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

This is my experience as well. 10 years of smoking analogs lead me to ecigs. Used ecig for 3 years. Went from 18mg to 0 in the last 6 months of me using. Continued using 0 nic for 2 months. Now I am 8 months clean of all nicotine products and 6 months clean of ecigs in general. It was easy because of how gradual it was and that I was still able to satisfy the oral habit of smoking while kicking the chemical dependenc…

> Went from 18mg to 0 in the last 6 months of me using. Continued using 0 nic for 2 months. Now I am 8 months clean of all nicotine products and 6 months clean of ecigs in general.

Congratulations!

But being a non-smoker, I don't understand. Can you explain why you couldn't have cut down on nicotine by just smoking fewer cigarettes per day?

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#150

Post by cr0sh »

josho wrote: post #32
linkregister wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in U.S. cities will I see scare-tactic advertisements against e-cigarettes. What's strange to me is that the Truth campaign is sponsoring some of them. The Truth campaign is a result of a liability suit of several states vs the cigarette companies, and it is intended to pay for anti-smoking advertisements and smoking cessation programs. It appears to be a blatant violation of the terms of the judgement.

Wow, that's a dirty tactic. Especially when you consider that what's bad about smoking is tobacco and e-cigs don't necessarily have tobacco.

e-cigs don't even necessarily have nicotine.

I like to vape on occasion - mostly at home, indoors, when I am coding or doing something similar on my computer in my office.

My vape of choice is a custom menthol blend with caffeine - and zero nicotine.

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