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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

131–140 of 269 posts

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with taxes on harmful products like tobacco and alcohol since they are a harm to society and a burden on society.

I have no problem with taxes on them for a different reason: They are a luxury good. Nobody needs them.

You could say that about almost anything though. I don't need to post on HN, but that fact alone wouldn't justify a tax on HN posting.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#132
post #101

Of course it's great if you're replacing normal cigarettes with it. But why should we pretend it's healthy to do if you weren't smoking to begin with? Nicotine is still highly addictive and causes heart disease. If you're not currently using nicotine, why start?

That's one thing I don't understand. It's great if used as an an aid to quitting, like nicotine gum, but I don't understand why someone would use them otherwise. A nonsmoker buying nicotine gum would be just as crazy. I can't imagine anyone being naive enough to think that nicotine by itself is a good thing, except as a step towards getting rid of a preexisting nicotine addiction.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#133
post #101

Of course it's great if you're replacing normal cigarettes with it. But why should we pretend it's healthy to do if you weren't smoking to begin with? Nicotine is still highly addictive and causes heart disease. If you're not currently using nicotine, why start?

Lots of reasons! :) https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

Wow, that's crazy. The most interesting part is that for Tobacco, it's MAOIs, not nicotine, that is the most addictive.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#134
post #93
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. 20 years of smoking, failing at every cessation method that I've heard of, was finally beaten with 3 months of e-cig tapering for me too. I was actually content just keep using it, but my machine broke on an out of town trip, and I realized after a few days I didn't miss it like I did when I'd try to quit smoking. These anti-vape ads infuriate me. I don't even use one anymore, haven't for over a year, and every…

Do we have any statistics on percentage of vape users quitting analog smoking vs. recreational/teen experimental usage? If there are strong recreational vape trends in youth I can see why anti-vape ads might be a thing.

Teens already experiment with smoking actual cigarettes, all vaping does is provide them with an alternative to experiment with that is far safer and less addicting than tobacco.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#135

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

This, IMO, is a good reason to legalize and regulate all drugs, including hard drugs like heroin and meth. The user having the tools to regulate the potency and amount of the drug in order to use this taper-down strategy is not available via the black market.

Not to mention the drastic increase in accurate market information. The amount of misinformation and lies (reefer madness) about drugs coming from well meaning (that might be generous) people and organizations about illegal drugs is staggering. Some people trust this and never try drugs, other people try drugs and realize they've been lied to, which leads to a lack of trust in the information presented about drugs. This is a bad thing because some drugs truly do have very bad downsides.

Sometimes I wish kids were forced to truly grok some of the basics of economic theory before getting to high school. I wonder how different the world would be if even a few percent more people didn't take some of the actions they do that are clearly counterproductive.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#136
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why the goal is quitting. Nicotine itself isn't the problem with cigarettes, it's just a stimulant and has the usual stimulant effects. If you have high blood pressure or trouble sleeping, probably not a great drug to use. But the same can be said of coffee, which is perfectly legal. https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine is interesting reading. Of course, e-cigarette liquid is not only nicotine, so who knows wh…

> Nicotine itself isn't the problem with cigarettes, it's just a stimulant and has the usual stimulant effects Agreed, it's tobacco that is the primary issue. I've been curious to adopt the e-cig for the stimulant aspect. I likely won't, but will admit to being curious if it would be a productivity boost. I'd bet the e-cig companies could gain a whole new market if they published some quasi-scientific material on the…

I've adopted nicotine gum. I've never smoked. It helps me focus. (Or, at least, I have the impression it helps me focus. I havn't actually measured anything.)

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#137
post #27

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

As a former smoker I believe that the best way to quit smoking is cold turkey. Sure, the withdrawal phase is a hell but in my case that helped me realize just how addictive that shit was. Before I’d never imagine that quitting would cause me depression or sleeping problems. All that, and a lot more, helped me understand how much my body was reliant on cigarettes. From my experience most smokers don’t realize how addi…

As a fellow former smoker, I don't agree that you have the standing to decide the best way for anyone but you.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#138

How do you know they are safer? My understanding was that many ingredients, particularly for flavored formulas are proprietary and unknown.

It's true that flavorings are the biggest variable and it's a risk that people are taking because many feel that risk is extremely low. For example; some flavorings contain diacetyl which, if inhaling too much, will lead to Bronchiolitis Obliterans or "popcorn lung", but the amount actually inhaled in e-cigarettes is 750 times less than cigarettes and vastly less than the amount inhaled by people that have developed…

There's a snopes piece that debunks the popcorn lung worth knowing about if anyone mentions it.

http://www.snopes.com/vaping-causes-popcorn-lung/

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#139
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the gum be easier and more discreet ?

Out of curiosity, I tried this instead of going back on caffeine. I got the lowest-dose gum, cut a piece into tiny fractions, and still found it too intense. I don't know if was just my metabolism or if smokers have all just built up a big tolerance, but it was definitely not for me.

I've been chewing nicotine gum semi-regularly for a couple of months. I use 2mg pieces, and I found a single piece to be pretty intense at first; I'm a bit more tolerant now.

Did you read the instructions? You're supposed to chew on it for a bit, than 'park' the gum between your gum and teeth, let it sit for a minute or two, rinse, repeat. If you chew continuously you get the whole dose quickly, which can be a bit unpleasant if you don't like the nicotine buzz.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#140
post #95

" Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture, said Deborah Arnott, the chief executive of Action on Smoking and Health. " This is true. You can see the same thing during the (alcohol) prohibition era: because ethyl alcohol is necessary for other uses, it was mandated to be "denatured" by adding chemicals that…

Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture

I think that's hugely simplified. There are plenty of drugs which are exceedingly difficult to use recreationally:

- Crack

- Meth

- Nicotine

- Heroin

People who use those at all are very likely to use them a whole hell of a lot, and they have terrible health effects. I don't think it's Puritanism to recommend staying away from highly addictive substances.

Now, getting someone who doesn't already smoke to vape is bad, but I haven't seen any significant evidence that vaping leads them to smoking, so there's that.

According to HHS (http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/substanc...):

"Eighth grade students who use e-cigarettes are 10 times more likely than their peers who do not use e-cigarettes to eventually smoke tobacco cigarettes. This trend continues to a slightly lesser degree for older adolescents. Tenth and 12th grade students who use e-cigarettes are eight and six times more likely, respectively, than their peers to smoke tobacco cigarettes. This suggests that youth who use e-cigarettes are likely to become tobacco cigarette smokers as they age."

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